Rosie v. Imus

[ecoli]

Really? I guess I'm not surprised, but I hadn't heard that. I'm sure it's coming around the corner. Anytime you start messing with free speech, you're screwing with our democracy. It's hard to convince people of stuff like that when they let their emotions defeat logic and empower vocabulary rather than the human intent.

 

You know...like how they say bullets kill people....

 

I guess the girls could sue for defamation of character, or something like that. But, I doubt they will or that they even want to. Either way, they would be the ones that would have to press the issue, in order for the government to intervene. That's the only way it should be able to intervene.

[Pangloss]

Well they can sue for slander, right?

 

(Unless, of course, they're actually prostitutes -- wouldn't THAT be an interesting story development....)

[Haezed]

But that's what I mean about not knowing how to use the lingo. [/qoute]

 

I didn't know what nappy headed meant but it came pretty trippingly off of Imus' tounge and he sure as hell knew what ho means. Sorry, but I find this as bad as the N word.

 

The problem with debasing young black women isn't unique to Imus, of course:

 

So does that mean rappers who call women "hos" should also be in hot water? One of those rappers, Snoop Dogg, says no.

 

 

"[Rappers] are not talking about no collegiate basketball girls who have made it to the next level in education and sports. We're talking about ho's that's in the 'hood that ain't doing sh--, that's trying to get a n---a for his money. These are two separate things.

 

 

So it's okay to call a single mother trying to raise kids in a ghetto a whore, whether or not she is, but not if they can play basketball and go to college? I put a lot of blame, most of the blame, for this on rappers who have debased black women for profit.

 

When I say someone is "bad ass", you have a decent idea of what I mean per the context.

 

And when someone says, "ho" they mean.... well, whore I guess.

 

If it's a guitar competition, I'm probably saying this guy is really good.

 

Sure doesn't sound as if Snoopie dog means it in a good way.

 

If it's a boxing match, I'm saying this guy is really tough and good at fighting. If it's a beauty contest, you might give me a funny look, but you'd know I meant well.

 

I'm having fun watch you streeeetch to make this point.

 

I really think he was trying to say they looked bad ass, tough, mean, what have you and trying to use "edgy" lingo, that he isn't familiar with, in order to say it. Look, the black culture has glorified "pimps", "hoes" and etc and I've seen women call themselves "bitches" and so forth. I think he was just trying to take their cue and go with it. But he clearly doesn't understand what he's saying or how to use that language correctly.

 

Not all black culture but much of what passes for entertainment does and I hold them responsible as well.

 

I've not seen women with any self respect call themselves bitches or whores. Can you give me the positive context?

 

It should have gotten a funny look, maybe a jear from his sidekick, at the most and should have never been brought up again. It wasn't important in the least. It's funnier, to me, hearing him screw up cool talk. Kind of like hearing 40 something radio jocks try to sound "cool" to teenagers. It's hilarious...because it's pathetic.

 

Pathetic is a word we can agree on.

 

So, he's an idiot. He's an idiot that didn't spend the entire year trying to prove himself in basketball. He didn't beat anyone. He didn't fight the odds and bring home glory - Rutgers did. So why the hell is Imus getting their due? He's getting all of the attention instead of the Rutgers team. He didn't earn that. They did.

 

I really don't think Imus is enjoying this moment of inflated fame. Not in the least. I take him at his word that he is humiliated and would like it to pass. The Rutger's, FWIW, is getting far more positive attention than do most women's teams that win the title. The best player in college ball this year was never on the cover of any major sporting magazine.

 

I blame the people that are using the situation to blow it all up out of proportion so white people can continue to make asses of themselves to make people believe they're not racist and so black people can continue to make asses of themselves and jump on any racial issue that validates their perceived oppression.

 

I agree that we should not live constantly in fear of touching the third rail of alleged rascism. Actually, my initial post was trying to say I thought Rosie's intentional comments are worse than Imus. OTOH, there is meat on this particularly nasty bone. I think Imus should appologize as he has and, eventually, we should move on. I hope this gives us all a chance to understand we shouldn't call women bitches or whores. Blatent misogyny is not humerous.

 

Those people should apologize for hijacking Rutger's moment of glory, and making an issue out of absolutely nothing. That's pathetic and shameful.

 

What people? Anyone who finds Imus' comment objectionable?

 

"Absolutely nothing" is another huge stretch, and these ladies' moment in the sun is not diminished by those who came to their defense. That's silly. I think they come out of it elevated and, I hope, some good will come from it.

[ParanoiA]

I didn't know what nappy headed meant but it came pretty trippingly off of Imus' tounge and he sure as hell knew what ho means. Sorry, but I find this as bad as the N word.

 

The problem with debasing young black women isn't unique to Imus, of course:

 

There's nothing racial about it though, other than the lame attempt at using language he isn't familiar enough with to be using. Keep in mind though, I'm a big believer in what offends you is usually your problem.

 

So it's okay to call a single mother trying to raise kids in a ghetto a whore, whether or not she is, but not if they can play basketball and go to college? I put a lot of blame, most of the blame, for this on rappers who have debased black women for profit.

 

They've debased far more than black women. The anti-intellectual prison culture embraced by rappers and the youth that look up to them is the bigger problem.

 

I'm having fun watch you streeeetch to make this point.

 

No streching necessary. Actually, the point wasn't in each separate sentence that you commented on, it's the whole paragraph.

 

Bad ass may sound negative when you analyze the words independent of pop culture or societal norms. However, when you are more than familiar with its usage - like we are - it's a positive statement. I've seen "bitch" become a term of endearment. Women wearing shirts that brag about being the biggest bitch and so on.

 

Females, particularly younger ones, are quite taken by this culture as well. They don't seem to have too many issues with being referred to as bitch or ho - desensitization I guess. That's the only point I'm making. To an old white guy, none of this makes any sense - so when that same old white guy tries to use it (ie..trying to be relevant to the youth) he screws up. Slip of the tongue doesn't mean he harbors misogynistic views. Although he may, I'm just saying this one incident doesn't.

 

However, I don't run around using these terms because I don't really understand and don't entirely agree with it.

 

Not all black culture but much of what passes for entertainment does and I hold them responsible as well.

 

Ok, that's really great but I hardly see the point in hanging white dudes that slip up ever now and then while those who make money off of doing 24/7 get a free pass. Snoop is far worse than Imus.

 

I've not seen women with any self respect call themselves bitches or whores. Can you give me the positive context?

 

Oh come on. You haven't heard the classic "That's miss bitch to you" in response to being called one? You don't have to agree with the positive to recognize that others see it that way. And you're being a little stuffy about it too. My wife has half-jokingly called herself my bitch. She gets all my respect and has plenty of respect for herself - but not so much we can't loosen up a little.

 

I really don't think Imus is enjoying this moment of inflated fame. Not in the least. I take him at his word that he is humiliated and would like it to pass. The Rutger's, FWIW, is getting far more positive attention than do most women's teams that win the title. The best player in college ball this year was never on the cover of any major sporting magazine.

 

True, but my point was that Imus is the cause of it and has effected it, when he should have had nothing to do with it at all.

 

What people? Anyone who finds Imus' comment objectionable?

 

Anyone who uses it to redirect attention to themselves and relive the 60's and wallow in victimhood. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton. They've done good things in the past, but their need has diminished and like all activists, they don't know when to stop. They're pefectly content in keeping the country divided and constantly overreacting to make themselves relevant.

[ecoli]

Anyone who uses it to redirect attention to themselves and relive the 60's and wallow in victimhood. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton. They've done good things in the past, but their need has diminished and like all activists, they don't know when to stop. They're pefectly content in keeping the country divided and constantly overreacting to make themselves relevant.

 

And, it's not fair that Imus is the one who has to suffer for it. He now has no TV or radio show.

 

Now, I'm sure Imus is not going to be stuggling financially, but because of these "activists" Imus's name is now synonymous with racism. Don Imus and his brother Fred have raised millions of dollars for charitable causes, and have done far more good than harm throughout their careers. Now, there power to do good works have been severly diminished.

 

I'm not excusing what he said, of course... I'm just trying to point out that by calling him out on this so hard has caused a lot more problems than it has solved.

 

Good job, Al Sharpton... I can't beleive he ever tried to run for president. And now Hilary is kissing his ass to pander to the black vote. It's a mess.

[ParanoiA]

Great points ecoli.

 

I don't have any background on Imus, so I don't know what he's done good or bad in his career. I know that this one incident is retarded and overblown for little more than drama's sake.

 

Really people. Of all the problems with racism and so forth you really expect us to believe this is how you fix it? Calling out people who make a "mistake" and letting the real racists continue unabated. Like the KKK, black panthers, Islamic terrorism, snoop dog...

[padren]

It makes me wonder about the fine line between racially insensitive comments and racist comments.

 

I can understand people getting fired for racist comments, but it really struck me as insensitive/and or ignorant comments in the Imus case. I think Rosie's comments were far closer to racist than Imus.

 

Honestly, I think Imus more being ignorant and, in a really bad move, drew upon what he remembered from watching "Bullworth" ages ago to try and sound hip.

 

As far as I can tell he wasn't slandering the team - he just used terminology that was racially loaded.

 

The true difference between racist comments, and racially insenstive ones, IMHO, is if it is still disparaging even if you use less offensive terms, or the terms used are especially loaded.

 

If he had said something like "broker than a n****r the day after pay-day" would be blatantly racist, and even if you substituted the n-word for "a person of color" it would still be blatantly racist.

 

His comments were offensive and demonstrated great ignorance given he decided to actually use them, but I don't think they were used to try and disparage the team - he used words that he thought would make him sound 'hip' and he failed miserably.

[ecoli]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6553603.stm

 

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said on Friday his comments had been "disgusting" and Mr Imus deserved to lose his job.

 

"I'm very glad that there was, in fact, a consequence," Ms Rice said.

 

"I think that this kind of coarse language doesn't belong anywhere in reasonable dialogue between reasonable people," she said.

 

So apparently, our gov't officials don't support free speech. That's good to know.

 

Being a "reasonable person" is not a requirement for one to able to say what they want, in this country.

[Haezed]

There's nothing racial about it though, other than the lame attempt at using language he isn't familiar enough with to be using. Keep in mind though, I'm a big believer in what offends you is usually your problem.

 

I'm a big believer in the free market and I'm not going to call a waaambulance for a shock jock who loses gets fired for crossing a line. Having a big time radio show is about having an audience who have every right to be fickle and, if they feel like it, to say I'm not going to listen this schlock. Ultimately, he'll be okay if sponsors and viewers stick with him. If not, that's just the the free market in action. You'd think he's a victim in darfur the way some are standing up for him. I view it as life in the big city.

 

They've debased far more than black women. The anti-intellectual prison culture embraced by rappers and the youth that look up to them is the bigger problem.

 

No argument here at all.

 

No streching necessary. Actually, the point wasn't in each separate sentence that you commented on, it's the whole paragraph.

 

Bad ass may sound negative when you analyze the words independent of pop culture or societal norms. However, when you are more than familiar with its usage - like we are - it's a positive statement. I've seen "bitch" become a term of endearment. Women wearing shirts that brag about being the biggest bitch and so on.

 

Females, particularly younger ones, are quite taken by this culture as well. They don't seem to have too many issues with being referred to as bitch or ho - desensitization I guess. That's the only point I'm making. To an old white guy, none of this makes any sense - so when that same old white guy tries to use it (ie..trying to be relevant to the youth) he screws up. Slip of the tongue doesn't mean he harbors misogynistic views. Although he may, I'm just saying this one incident doesn't.

 

Bitch can be used to describe a tough as nails female. That's not the context it's used in rap usually.

 

Whore doesn't have any converse positive association. You assume Imus didn't know what nappy headed meant without any proof or even that claim being made by Imus that I've heard.

 

Ok, that's really great but I hardly see the point in hanging white dudes that slip up ever now and then while those who make money off of doing 24/7 get a free pass. Snoop is far worse than Imus.

 

No one is getting hung. He lost a high profile job that depends on the good will of the public. It's all about appealing to public taste and he blew it.

 

I agree with your last sentence.

 

Anyone who uses it to redirect attention to themselves and relive the 60's and wallow in victimhood. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton. They've done good things in the past, but their need has diminished and like all activists, they don't know when to stop. They're pefectly content in keeping the country divided and constantly overreacting to make themselves relevant.

 

We are more in agreement than you know. The black community has to get past Jackson & Sharpton and learn to discuss issues such as Rappers. When Bill Cosby stepped up to the plate they were right behind him. Five miles behind him. Shameful stuff.

[Haezed]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6553603.stm

 

 

 

So apparently, our gov't officials don't support free speech. That's good to know.

 

Being a "reasonable person" is not a requirement for one to able to say what they want, in this country.

 

I suspect she's speaking as a black woman who overcame the odds to become one of the most powerful people on the planet. She didn't use her governmental position to get him fired; she merely exercised her right of free speech. That right doesn't just go in one direction.

[ecoli]

I suspect she's speaking as a black woman who overcame the odds to become one of the most powerful people on the planet. She didn't use her governmental position to get him fired; she merely exercised her right of free speech. That right doesn't just go in one direction.

 

I realize that... but she can't ignore the fact that she's a government official. It could be read as the government endorsing this ridiculous attempt at censorship.

 

but, w/e... it's a minor point.

[ParanoiA]

We are more in agreement than you know. The black community has to get past Jackson & Sharpton and learn to discuss issues such as Rappers. When Bill Cosby stepped up to the plate they were right behind him. Five miles behind him. Shameful stuff.

 

Well you know...I was listening to the radio tonight waiting on my kids and stumbled across some woman who called into the radio station and was on a roll laying this whole thing out. She made the point that there are black people speaking out about this - something about Al Sharpton and a coordinated, voluntary 90 day ban on rap music? She mentioned several community gatherings and such that Sharpton and Jackson get invovled in, focused on rap music and the culture that's taking over the youth.

 

Anyway, her point was that the media doesn't report this stuff. In the same way they don't report missing black girls nationally, just cute white ones. I have to agree with that, or at least it's plausible given the double standard with the press. I hope that's true, and we'll start seeing more of it.

[Pangloss]

It'd be interesting if this actually lead to some industry self-policing on rap music lyrics.

 

The music industry's always been pretty good at closing the doors on empty barns.

[Haezed]

It'd be interesting if this actually lead to some industry self-policing on rap music lyrics.

 

The music industry's always been pretty good at closing the doors on empty barns.

 

That's my hope. At least we saw the question posed to Snoop Dog and got to see his lame answer.

[GutZ]

I still don't know what nappy head ho means!

[bascule]

I still don't know what nappy head ho means!

 

Nappy refers to the naturally curly hair of people of negroid descent. An "afro" is a type of hairstyle which leverages the natural curliness. Overall it represents a markedly different texture of hair where individual strands bunch together to form more solid shapes.

 

"Hos" is an abbreviation for whores, a.k.a. prostitutes

 

Al Sharpton's insinuation was that while both teams were of black descent, Imus was referencing a more direct negroid (i.e. African) lineage, as opposed to the more mulatto nature of the opposing team (which leads to hair which is naturally straight)

[GutZ]

lol, I guess he had no idea what he was saying then....

[Haezed]

Next question: Did the canning (or caning) of Imus, influence Rosie's departure? Trump says she was fired.

[john5746]

Next question: Did the canning (or caning) of Imus, influence Rosie's departure? Trump says she was fired.

 

I don't think so. I think both sides were frustrated on that deal. Rosie is too big a mouth to share the spotlight with anyone, especially if they disagree. O'reilly is the same way, of course he isn't as stupid as she.

[Pangloss]

I don't think she was fired either, exactly. But it had to be a factor in the negotiations, as john5746 says. Couldn't not be.

[Haezed]

Trump said she was fired. You may be right that this isn't what happened "exactly" yet I think she was pointed in the general direction of the door.

[Sisyphus]

Donald Trump is a slimy jackass...

[Pangloss]

I don't know why Trump would have any special knowledge as to the reasons for her departure, and he has a really good reason for saying that she was fired.

 

(I can't believe I actually spent time discussing this, lol)

[Haezed]

I don't know why Trump would have any special knowledge as to the reasons for her departure, and he has a really good reason for saying that she was fired.

 

And Rosie had a couple of great reasons for being fired, not the least of which was spouting 9/11 nutcase conspiracy theories.

 

(I can't believe I actually spent time discussing this, lol)

 

Because you're an addict?

[Sisyphus]

And Rosie had a couple of great reasons for being fired,

 

What talking head doesn't?