YT2095 Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 http://www.geekarmy.com/Science/Cool-Battery-Demonstration.html can anyone explain this? is it even Real? I wonder because only the B stream seems affected, so if both are Equal then what makes B so different?
Klaynos Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 Well the flow looked to me to be faster through B than A, so that would give the greater affect and also may help to understand more....
JohnF Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 Is this caused by the water getting charged by friction as it flows through the pipes?
Klaynos Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 Is this caused by the water getting charged by friction as it flows through the pipes? I'd say possibly the air...
JohnF Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 It's just that in the video he specifically mentioned a glass pipe before the plastic ones. I figured this was significant otherwise why not just use plastic pipe throughout. Certainly interesting though.
Klaynos Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 It's just that in the video he specifically mentioned a glass pipe before the plastic ones. I figured this was significant otherwise why not just use plastic pipe throughout. Certainly interesting though. I missed that bit.
swansont Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 http://www.geekarmy.com/Science/Cool-Battery-Demonstration.html can anyone explain this? Ever see a van de Graff generator?
YT2095 Posted April 12, 2007 Author Posted April 12, 2007 Ever see a van de Graff generator? oddly enough that`s exactly what I said to my mate when he saw it, I figured the water was acting the same as the belt, however I was at a loss to explain and am still concerned as to Why it only affected B? what sets up the Difference? there was Certainly Nothing mentioned or shown!
JohnF Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 So if it's a static charge then could this be what happens... As the water passes through the tube it becomes charged by friction. Some of it gets a positive charge and some a negative charge. Could this effect which path it takes at the T junction? I assume this has something to do with ions. As the water flows in to the collectors you have one collector with mostly positively charged water and the other with mostly negatively charged water. The connection by wire to opposite tunnels causes the water on one side to be attracted to the tunnel (sprays out) whilst on the other side it is repelled (squashed in). The charge in each collector increases until it can spark at which point the charge in both containers is insufficient to effect the water through the tunnel.
swansont Posted April 12, 2007 Posted April 12, 2007 Ions, or just maybe the polar nature of the water, are going to induce a charge in the upper buckets, which will tend to allow electrons to be stripped off or added. So you will have a net charge in the bottom bucket. The upper and lower buckets are cross-connected, so once this starts happening, there will continue to be a charge in the upper bucket that will continue to strip/add the electrons - it feeds back on itself until the spark occurs. It may be easier for the electrons to go one way than the other (to the bucket or to the water), so that's why the streams may not separate equally.
YT2095 Posted April 13, 2007 Author Posted April 13, 2007 Bingo!, Thnx John This is the "Difference" I was seeking that they didn`t mention: "" SELF-STARTING But where does the first charge come from? In fact, if you build such a device, it will usually create voltage all by itself, spontaneously, without being pre-charged. During dry conditions everything near the generator ends up with a tiny electric charge just from being handled. If one of the upper cans is slightly negative, it will cause the water to have imbalanced positive, which will start up the other side of the generator, which will make the charge on the negative side become larger, etc., over and over. It's like balancing a penny on edge: it's hard to start out with a perfect balance, and usually it falls one way or the other. Same with this generator. If there's a tiny electrical imbalance at the start, the generator will amplify it over and over, and the voltage will "fall over" to either one polarity or the other. A high voltage will magically appear from nowhere. (But nobody knows which side will start out positive and which will be negative.) ""
JohnF Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 YT2095: That was bugging me too. Your balancing penny analogy is a good explanation though. I did come up with another idea on that. Could the Earth's magnetic field influence the direction of positive and negative ions? Perhaps just a little at first, but enough to always start the 'penny tipping' in the same direction. What do you think? Before that I considered a magnet at the T junction. But then he wanted his students to explain what was going on and he hadn't mentioned a magnet; that would have been cheating. Then I wondered if the turbulance at the T junction could create a magnetic field that would aid seperation.
YT2095 Posted April 13, 2007 Author Posted April 13, 2007 I`m not sure about a magnet, and you`re quite right, I Also would consider it "cheating" or certainly neglectful if they Had omitted that part. I`m wondering if it had anything to do with that Light!? perhaps some photo-electric effect to bias the charge a tiny bit?
JohnF Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 I`m not sure about a magnet, and you`re quite right, I Also would consider it "cheating" or certainly neglectful if they Had omitted that part. I`m wondering if it had anything to do with that Light!? perhaps some photo-electric effect to bias the charge a tiny bit? Would the heat from the lamp on the tin have an effect?
YT2095 Posted April 13, 2007 Author Posted April 13, 2007 I`m not sure it would be the heat exactly, but rather the packet energy in the Photons themselves, de-localising electrons, I think it`s called the Compton effect. I`ll stand to be corrected on this however.
JohnF Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 I`m not sure it would be the heat exactly, but rather the packet energy in the Photons themselves, de-localising electrons, I think it`s called the Compton effect. I`ll stand to be corrected on this however. I used to have a glass ball that had a partial vacuum in it. Inside the ball on a needle was a rotating arrangement of vanes. One side of each vane was painted white and the other side painted black. When sunlight shone on it these vanes rotated, away from the black side. I think it had something to do with ions being repelled from the black side with more energy than those repelled from the white side. This caused more oposite force to the black side of the vanes.
YT2095 Posted April 13, 2007 Author Posted April 13, 2007 a "Radiometer" my Mom used to have one also edit: one of these; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crookes_radiometer
JohnF Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 a "Radiometer" my Mom used to have one also edit: one of these; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crookes_radiometer That's it Thanks. I might buy one for my son now I know what it's called. So it's air molecules bouncing off, not ions.
swansont Posted April 13, 2007 Posted April 13, 2007 I`m not sure about a magnet, and you`re quite right, I Also would consider it "cheating" or certainly neglectful if they Had omitted that part. I`m wondering if it had anything to do with that Light!? perhaps some photo-electric effect to bias the charge a tiny bit? Since it's basically static charge that causes the initial bias I don't think a magnet will help
YT2095 Posted April 13, 2007 Author Posted April 13, 2007 yeah, I couldn`t see how a magnet would alter matters much either, the Compton effect however? that would certainly add a Little intial Bias, although I`m not sure if it would be much at visible wavelengths...
alan2here Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 So if one was made to geterate electrisity to power something usefull. How much power could it make and how big would that end up being? Equivelent to This or This or This or are we talking something more worthwile? We all have plenty of water running around in out homes in pipes.
YT2095 Posted April 15, 2007 Author Posted April 15, 2007 So if one was made to geterate electrisity to power something usefull. How much power could it make and how big would that end up being? Equivelent to This or This or This or are we talking something more worthwile? We all have plenty of water running around in out homes in pipes. it wouldn`t be a Lot! and although it would easlity strike up a fluorescent strip light, as soon as it did, the charge would be shorted out and you`de have to wait a few more seconds for another flash. you could probably get a constant voltage through a several mega-ohm resistor, but it wouldn`t be much usable. in fact you`de get a lot more Juice out of the falling water via conventional means.
alan2here Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 You would have to wait a few more seconds for another flash Be ok if it was one 60th of a second to get another flash. In fact you would get a lot more Juice out of the falling water via conventional means. ahh ok, verry clever but not usefull then.
YT2095 Posted April 15, 2007 Author Posted April 15, 2007 Non that I can think of beyond one of pure Scientific Interest. although you Could charge up a suitable Capacitor via the Meg+ resistor and get a fairly hefty Whack out of it over time. and I dare say you could still employ the falling water with conventional means also, so it Would be a "Freebie" in a sense.
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