Teaching students, Google, Wikipedia etc.

[timo]

Well, keeping the links in could possibly count as citing the sources used .

[CharonY]

not if the links are embedded in words within the main text...

 

Anyhow I got one diploma student who actually reads the papers I give em.

Yey!

[GutZ]

How is it that these people get into university?!?! Honestly. That angers me because there are a lot of students like myself who would love to go to university to study something but didn't have the money or grades (which is my fault but hey I am not perfect).

[blike]

In undergraduate I sometimes used wikipedia as a jumping point to more resources.

 

The problem with this is that you not only limit your exposure to viewpoints that the wikipedia author happens to link to, but you also lose the chronological development and modifications of ideas. For example, a wikipedia article may cite a paper from 2002. What you may miss if you jump from wikipedia is that a paper published in 2003 basically reversed the viewpoint, and then in 2005 a study modified the 2003 paper's conclusions, and in 2007 the 2005 conclusions were once again modified.

 

No I did not learn this the hard way.

[spooky]

As a grade 10 high school student, I read a lot, most of my sources are in fact books or hand outs from class. I still use the Internet but I find multiple sources for my main statements and anything I'm not sure of.

 

Its something I see every day at my high school, kids getting away with copy and paste while I'm in the library making do with our books till i can get to the bigger library near by. It annoys me. Because sometimes these kids even get higher marks then me. >.< mentioned it to a teacher once but all they said was the school had to make special "circumstances" for some students because they can't meet the criteria normally.

 

-grumbles- alright I think that'll do for now...

[Glider]

I wouldn't worry about the 'cut & paste' kids. When it comes to the crunch, you'll know what you're talking about. They won't. If you all go to Uni afterwards, you'll do well because of the good habits you've formed, and they'll hit a wall. 'Cut & Paste' is considered plagiarism at Uni, and the penalties can be swift and harsh.

[CharonY]

Cut & Paste' is considered plagiarism at Uni, and the penalties can be swift and harsh.

 

Maybe there are differences between countries, however in the areas of natural sciences I hardly heard of penalties in the uni (in contrast to faculties where there are usually only theoretical theses at the end).

 

 

This is on part based on my personal experience (that is, the grad and undergrad students that I got), but also from colleagues (mostly in Germany but I also got a few comments while chatting with some mostly European colleagues Plagiarism is often penalized in case of theoretical work (e.g. in coursework and similar), however paradoxically not that much in the diploma/master thesis.

This is apparently due to the fact that the students here are assumed to have done independent labwork (though I was told from a Prof. that it is slightly different in the UK sometimes). So essentially the thesis is setup a bit like a normal publication, albeit longer, but usually with less scientific content (obviously). So you start off with your introduction, mat&meth, results, discussion. In general, the results and discussion part gets the most scrutiny as these show what really was done. Most plagiarism is then done in the introduction and mat&meth part. As it is considered less important, copy&paste is often ignored or at most admonished (if detected at all). Those that grade also hardly read those unimportant parts.

Results of course cannot be plagiarized, but the discussion sometimes has some copied in theories that simply do not fit. While this shows a lack of understanding in many unis/chairs whatever bodies responsible there is a sometimes unspoken consensus to let it slip. As in general the master/diploma thesis is often considered an too unimportant document to deny the student a further career.

 

This I even understand. But worse, quite often the grades are not reduced accordingly and in fact penalizing those that needed time to work the stuff out themselves.

 

But then it is always hard to grade those works, due to the different way these theses are setup. I mean, I like to let the students play, figure stuff out. Invariably they get fewer results, but the good ones get deeper understanding of their work. In contrast it is often usus to use them as mindless working drones, much like a technical assistant. In this case results roll in fast but they hardly understand what they do (good and average ones are closer together here). So, how to grade that? Also giving bad marks usually lowers the attractivity for the group. This is yet another reason to give out good marks. In general, I assume there is as of yet no real way for fairness (at least for the student’s side). The only thing I can think of to encourage those doing good work is that it is for the good of themselves, not for their grades. I do not feel very convincing, though.

[Glider]

Here, whilst masters and Ph.D. theses are scruitinised for plagiarism, it's not to the same degree as undergraduate work. The reason is that masters and Ph.D. work has to be novel and original (and sections are read by the directors of study) so there is generally less scope for cut & paste type stealing. Undergrad. work however, is the same old stuff, year after year and the scope is huge, especially with previous essays appearing on the intermaweb.

[CharonY]

That's actually what I wanted to say (albeit in a bit complicated way). I have as of yet only one instance in a phD work that had to be criticized.

For masters, however, recently more and more introduction parts are copy&paste works, as these are hardly that novel (usually within the scope of the group in which it was made). Here definitions are just copied or rephrased (quite often actually losing their meaning).

These parts however, are almost only read by the direct supervisor, the Prof, director, whatever hardly reads the work in detail. This might depend on the work group though (and his/her personal time).

Also many of these are not that much into the work themselves (Profs tend more to be on the manager as on the science side, when the group is expanding), so they sometimes also miss factual errors.

[Severian]

We actually have sorfware that scans reports to check for plagiarism or inconsistant writing. That is why we sometimes ask for electronic versions of reports.

[Glider]

We use software for that too (JISC ). It's not infallible, but it's very good. All first-years are required to submit electronic versions of their work and I think that will probably be extended to 2nd and 3rd years.

 

The sad thing is that it's necessary. Plagiarism is on the increase.

[Pangloss]

We use software as well, but I've heard that some universities stopped using it (including the one where I got my Masters) because of questionable accuracy. But I have noticed that the result requires a bit of analysis; it's not just an upload-and-know kind of deal. It may be more a problem of training.

[Glider]

JISC uses a colour doded flag when identical text is detected (green, amber and red depending on the percentage of identical text found), but it's up to the tutor to visually examine the paper.

 

The really helpful thing that JISC does is to hold the student's paper up in one window, and the source of the identical text in another so you can compare them directly and make your own judgements. This is (IMO) a lot better than relying on software to make judgements for you.

 

A real problem is these sites that offer to write essays (for money). They guarantee that the essay will be original and not posted on the internet, ever. These essays are therefore invisible to anti plagiarism software.

 

However, in Uni the other day I was talking to another lecturer who told me that a mutual friend of ours had marked a course work essay he suspected was plagiarised. He approached this online essay writing service and told them his story. They responded that their service guarantees confidentiality, he told them that they also state clearly that their essays are to be used for research purposes only and so if this student had presented it as course work, they had broken the terms of their agreement. The site gave him a temporary login and he was allowed to search their database. He found the essay and the student was busted (yay!).

 

You have to admire his tenacity.

[KLB]

Kudos for such a tenacious paper grader. As far as I'm concerned the terms of service of those paper mills that their papers are only for research purposes is bull. This is nothing more than to cloak their service in some sort of legitimacy. I'm sure the vast number of papers purchased are actually turned in for class assignments. If these services were legit, they would make their paper databases available to anti-plagiarism software to index and compare against. If an essay writing service were to do this, however, we all know they would be out of business very quickly.

[Glider]

I agree completely. It's why I found it so funny. When they were actually called on their terms of service clause, they had to cave in to maintain the lie.

 

Given that it is such an obvious lie, I do feel that these companies should be made to open their databases to anti plagiarism software. If their work is genuinely for research purposes only, it'll be cool. If not, they don't really deverve to be in business anyway, it's so obviously unethical. How the hell are they allowed to do that kind of thing anyway?

[Pangloss]

Made? By whom?

[CPL.Luke]

meh, even if the web sites were shut down it won't help, as in my experience the majority of purchased papers are from other students. Its not to difficult to find someone willing to write a paper for $20-30. While I have never made use of this or participated in it, I know several people who do it for some extra cash.

[swansont]

meh, even if the web sites were shut down it won't help, as in my experience the majority of purchased papers are from other students. Its not to difficult to find someone willing to write a paper for $20-30. While I have never made use of this or participated in it, I know several people who do it for some extra cash.

 

While it's not the same as research papers, I recall being told as a lab TA in grad school that the fraternities and sororities were suspected of keeping lab assignment write-ups on file, as well as a general student network. To fight this we were asked to make up new questions to be answered instead of the stock ones in the handouts. And sure enough, you'd get one or two turned in that were obviously copied without regard for matching the answers to the questions.

[KLB]

My mother has been a college professor for many years and one trick she likes to do is hand out multiple versions of the same test. She found this to be a great way to cause cheaters to fail on their own without having to prove they cheated. Over the years she foiled many students this way.

[Glider]

Made? By whom?

A good point, well made. Nonetheless, I think that a requirement of these "We will write your essay" sites should be to open their databases to anyone who can demonstrate that they are in an authorised, evaluative relationship with the people using the sites. Or, at least open them to to antiplagiarism scanning software from registered academic domains.

 

After all, it would only be helping these sites to ensure that their work was being used for research purposes only and not as course work. It would be helping these sites maintain their stated objectives, and we wouldn't even charge! How could they possibly complain?

[KLB]

It would be helping these sites maintain their stated objectives, and we wouldn't even charge! How could they possibly complain?

 

If maybe their stated objectives were just a ploy to gain legitimacy? Face it, without cheaters most of these paper mills would be out of business.

[Glider]

Of course it's a ploy for legitimacy. That's the point. If they are called on the lie, they'd either have to put up or shut up.

[KLB]

Of course it's a ploy for legitimacy. That's the point. If they are called on the lie, they'd either have to put up or shut up.

 

I realized that was the point you were trying to make. It's another case of two people's sarcasm being lost to emotionless text. Oh well.

[CPL.Luke]

like I said though, the majority of fraudulent papers are writen uniquely by a friend or some such for a fee. its impossible to spot any plagiarism from that source as each paper is unique.

[Glider]

I realized that was the point you were trying to make. It's another case of two people's sarcasm being lost to emotionless text. Oh well.

Yes it is.

 

like I said though, the majority of fraudulent papers are writen uniquely by a friend or some such for a fee. its impossible to spot any plagiarism from that source as each paper is unique.

Yes it is.

 

However, from observation, I get the feeling that that happens less over here, or it might just be at this particular University (or it might just be that in 11 years of teaching there, I've never noticed it). But i have noticed the increase in cut and paste from crappy net sources and wikipedia.