What is consciousness?

[reyam200]

Many of you may not like my question because there is no definitive answer.

is our consciousness simply the result of a network of neural circuits? or could it be a electro-magnetic energy "in-phase" with this space-time dimension.

even still, could the brains impulses be generating that energy? or are the impulses a result of extra-dimensional em stimulation.

 

Physicist's have already observed particles "popping" in and out of existence. apparently phasing to another dimension. so does the act of a particle in the brain coming back cause a chain of neural networks to fire? could this explain spontaneous human combustion? Hallucinations? even the visions that psychics claim to have? where does the consciousness go when a person is in a coma? is it still there? Will we ever know what our consciousness is? how it works? what its potential is?

 

There has always been someone who does not fit into the typical templates of psychology and science.

 

I'm asking for both conventional and non-conventional thinkers to answer this post.

[Realitycheck]

Consciousness is the product of a brain, awareness of varying degrees of self.

[JohnF]

When I had a motorcycle accident I was rendered unconscious for a short while; probably by the impact of the car hitting me. I didn't see the car coming and didn't know I'd been involved in a collision until I regained consciousness about 3 minutes later. What I do remember is BLANK! I wondered why there was blank, I couldn't understand it. I thought about it and decided it was definitely blank and not darkness or the absence of light. It was like only I existed, not my body or my brain. I had no feeling of self awareness until I was conscious again; it seemed I was stuck in the witness state.

[reyam200]

I know the blank feeling your describing.

 

when i was 14, there was a large pool were we lived, a small water slide too. like 10 tall, nothing to fancy. anyway, we thought it was fun to jump from there into the water. i had gone a few times before, and wanted to go again. there was probably about 15 people there at the time, cant be sure, i wasn't really paying much attenention. anyway, i waited for enough space to jump, when i did jump. a split second later my cousin jumped in from the side of the pool, not knowing that i was in the air.

 

i remember wanting to stop. thats when i blanked out. no senses, nothing, just blank. it almost feels like dreaming. it was probably one of the brains many defensive mechanisms to keep me from feeling the impact of the concrete, because my being as scared as i was, it may have given me a heart attack.

 

it may not be the same with you, but it feel like a long time before i "woke up"

[JohnF]

it may not be the same with you, but it feel like a long time before i "woke up"

 

I had no awareness of time during my blank

I only know how long I was out because that's what the car driver, who hit me, and the other witnesses told me. The ambulance arrived within about 90 seconds of me regaining consciousness, which leads me to believe I was out for at least as long as they said.

 

I've wondered if my conscious mind was disconnected from me. Me being 'I' rather than my body, my brain, my thoughts or anything else I could call mine. It was as though 'I' was alone. The problem is that I recall thinking about it. What I don't know is whether I was thinking about it at the time it happened or I was thinking about it after it had happened; perhaps just before I regained consciousness.

[bombus]

Consciousness might be part of space-time. It has been suggested that brains merely utilize consciousness in the same way that eyes utilize light, ears utilize sound etc. It may not come from within at all!

 

The last time I lost consciousness was like the posts above. Coming round was not at all like waking from sleep. It was like my mind came back online. Like reality condensing from chaos. Really really wierd, and interesting!

[bascule]

Consciousness is a computational reflection of the universe

[reyam200]

I had no awareness of time during my blank

 

i remember being aware, but it was a lower level of awareness, i was aware of the "emptiness" that i was in for that moment. but as far as reality, i wasn't aware of anything.

 

maybe the Consciousness leaves or simply disconnects from the brain. if only they could measure the brain waves at that moment. to get a better picture of what is happening.

 

 

Both bombus and Bascles descriptions of consciousness seems to allow for the possibility of seeing the future or Remove Viewing. they would make sense if consciousness was part of Space-Time.

[bascule]

Yes, consciousness involves "seeing into the future", in the form of prediction.

 

The primary functions of consciousness really boil down to two activities:

 

1) Remembering

2) Predicting

 

These two functions form a continuous feedback loop. We remember what we predict, and predict from what we remember.

 

You seem to be on a completely different tangent though. By "seeing into the future" I mean using only what you remember to make predictions.

 

I stuck "computational" into my post for a very important reason. I think consciousness is computational (or possibly hypercomputational, although I seriously doubt that).

 

This means I believe consciousness can do no more or less than what can be done with any universal computer (or possibly hypercomputer)

[bombus]

Yes, consciousness involves "seeing into the future", in the form of prediction.

 

The primary functions of consciousness really boil down to two activities:

 

1) Remembering

2) Predicting

 

These two functions form a continuous feedback loop. We remember what we predict, and predict from what we remember.

 

You seem to be on a completely different tangent though. By "seeing into the future" I mean using only what you remember to make predictions.

 

I stuck "computational" into my post for a very important reason. I think consciousness is computational (or possibly hypercomputational, although I seriously doubt that).

 

This means I believe consciousness can do no more or less than what can be done with any universal computer (or possibly hypercomputer)

 

Is there not a well established argument that consciousness cannot be replicated by a computer programme however complex? Something to do with a chap called Godel?

 

However, I think the human mind is equivalent to many computers all networked and monitoring each other, so maybe Godel's theory doesn't apply anyway.

[bascule]

Is there not a well established argument that consciousness cannot be replicated by a computer programme however complex?

 

The closest is Searle's Chinese Room. Searle argues at the same time that there's some sort of bidirectional causality between an epiphenominal process arising from our biological brains (an idea he calls "biological naturalism") while at the same time arguing it's impossible for computers to do the same thing.

 

Something to do with a chap called Godel?

 

Penrose tried to use Godel's Incompleteness Theorem to prove that consciousness is non-computable (by a universal computer).

 

His proof was thoroughly debunked by Stanford mathematician Solomon Fefferman (also a neutral monist like Penrose):

 

http://psyche.cs.monash.edu.au/v2/psyche-2-07-feferman.html

[bombus]

The closest is Searle's Chinese Room. Searle argues at the same time that there's some sort of bidirectional causality between an epiphenominal process arising from our biological brains (an idea he calls "biological naturalism") while at the same time arguing it's impossible for computers to do the same thing.

 

I am familiar with the Chinese box argument - and don't agree with it at all. I think the whole proposition is wrong IMHO. But there we are...

 

 

enrose tried to use Godel's Incompleteness Theorem to prove that consciousness is non-computable (by a universal computer).

 

His proof was thoroughly debunked by Stanford mathematician Solomon Fefferman (also a neutral monist like Penrose):

 

http://psyche.cs.monash.edu.au/v2/psyche-2-07-feferman.html

 

 

However, I read the above and just can't concentrate long enough to understand it. I think I'm probably too stupid. Is it possible to explain this with glove puppets!?

[reyam200]

However, I think the human mind is equivalent to many computers all networked and monitoring each other, so maybe Godel's theory doesn't apply anyway.

 

I somewhat agree with this statement.. as I've come to the same theory.

If they could make a network of computers, each computer connected to dozens of others around it... they could... with the right programming.. make a very accurate replica of the human mind. perhaps.

 

just one neuron has thousands of connections to the neurons around it. so an exact replica of the human brain with computers as each neuron would be impossible in todays economy.

perhaps in the future when computers have become smaller and more intricate.

 

such a program would be dangerous in my view because with programing to emulate the human consciousness, it could likely become self aware because of the data that is streaming back to its self from outside sources. it would be interesting to construct a network like this, but no country has the money for such an endevour.

[Pepperjack]

Physicist's have already observed particles "popping" in and out of existence. apparently phasing to another dimension.

 

So could your consciousness be in this other dimension and our brains are just a tool they use? Like the particles carry information back from our brains to our conscious, then carry our reasoning back to us? Idk, or maybe I'm just making myself sound dumb?

[bascule]

So nice to see quantum mind discussions where they belong: in the pseudoscience forum

[DrDNA]

Consciousness = awareness of one's own existence in a broader environment. This self awareness or feeling of presence is immediately followed by the need or urge to maintain or preserve self.

[Quantoman]

energy = consciousness, i agree with bombus initial post, our brains are just a receiver for the energy released from a conscious universe or a conscious dimension.

 

and i think if we could single out the source energy of consciousness, we could indeed,.. channel it to have a computer program be aware of itself.

[lucaspa]

All of you, I strongly suggest you get a copy of the October issue of Scientific American. It has an excellent article on what consciousness is and 2 theories on "where" it resides in the brain.

[bascule]

Looks like it's an article from Scientific American Mind, which is an (excellent) adjunct of SciAm.

 

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=1&articleID=F65C0F4E-E7F2-99DF-383DC0B16998C011

[dichotomy]

Can I just drop in this work in progress on what might consitute higher order human consciousness -

 

Higher Human Consciousness =

1.Awareness of the finite (eg. resources), and what it means to survival chances.

2.Ability for abstract thought. Language, math, music, art.

3.Creating abstract art for arts sake. This is a brilliant indicator of consciousness, as abstract art is utterly meaningless and useless to other mammals.

4.Competently adapting to the largest range of environments, more so than any other mammal species, by using thought power to realize just how to do so?

5.Realising that we have unconscious, subconscious and conscious thought.

 

I also assume consciousness develops from the use of our senses. Without our senses we would have a very odd conscious state indeed. Does anyone know what un/conscious state we would have minus the 5 senses?

 

I had no awareness of time during my blank

 

How is it different to the unconscious state of deep sleep we all have?

[bascule]

All of you, I strongly suggest you get a copy of the October issue of Scientific American. It has an excellent article on what consciousness is and 2 theories on "where" it resides in the brain.

 

Let me just say that I bought this issue and was quite intrigued by the discussion.

 

It occurred between two neuroscientists who weren't so much arguing for which parts of the brain elicit consciousness as it was a discussion of how the content of consciousness is structured in the brain.

 

One was arguing there's a direct correlation between certain groups of neurons and certain types of content. The other described a holistic approach which I considered more in tune with the ideas behind functionalism.

 

Sadly (at least for me) neither attempted to pursue any kind of philosophical component to their arguments, including ones with a principally scientific basis (i.e. materialism, functionalism). I guess they prefer the "hard problem" be left to the philosophers.

 

That said, both asserted that improved brain scanning techniques would allow this debate to be settled empirically. I look forward to the resolution.

[ydoaPs]

Consciousness is a computational reflection of the universe

What do you think about the user illusion theory?

[bascule]

What do you think about the user illusion theory?

 

I don't understand it well enough to comment, however it sounds an awful lot like Dennett

[Chupacabra]

As far as I know, the neuroscience is still too far from explaining the phenomenon of consciousness as a whole, just some of its aspects. Consciousness must not be mixed up with cognitive faculties that do not require it to be present at all. It's neither understood WHAT is consciousness nor how its arises. So all being sayed on this issue are rather tentative hypotheses.

In my opinion, consciousness could not principally be understood by the matherialistic approach of modern science. Only one example: the phenomenon of our unique identity. While we are constantly changing throughout our lifes (and so are our brains) we remaining the ONE and te SAME person. The only feasible explanation is the presence of soul that renders us our uniqueness.

[Fred56]

Consciousness is one of those properties the "emergists" talk about emerging from the brain.