ignrnceprevails Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 how do you guys feel about the controversial PATRIOT Act (i know thats an acronym, but im too lazy to look it up)? Doesn't this "Big Brother" type government make you nervous? hmm, looks like George Orwell was 20 years early on that one. This act makes it possible for government to virtually watch everything you do (including taking a shower or dropping a load for suspected persons, im sure) in your everday life. Can't remember how many gallons of milk you bought last week? just call up big brother himself, donald rumsfeld, and he can let you know! and with their electronic surveillance in place, who knows...maybe im getting monitored for writing this thread on this not-so-patriotic act. well i'd like to hear all of your opinions on it, and if any of you know of a specific case of this act in work...lets hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atinymonkey Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 What is the Patriot act? Just out of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 there`s be spy computers and programs out since the early 80`s, prior to that actual people were used a "listeners" to fone calls and radio traffic, one such program was known as Echelon(sp?), it`s designed to listen for key words said over the fone lines, each word has a weighting system, a combo of these words will direct your call to a listener. there are now radio tags that will be implemented widely in the next few years (already in use in Germany almost full time) the idea beaing that you put items in your shopping basket and it`ll deduct the cash from your bank account there and then. there`s also a new system, some type of cross state data base that came into being a year ago (I can`t rem it cute little name though, I think it maybe called The Matrix, and no, I`m NOT kidding!). that system will collate ALL data about you that`s in known records all into one huge data base, there are plans for addons too, although I`m not sure it`ll extend to grocery shopping YET. but sure, it`s all quite real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atinymonkey Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Menwith hill in the uk, part of the global listening posts. /Is that what the Patriot act is? Extending the listening posts? Or is it just that the US now has the same level of monitoring internally that it has externally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 from what I understood, it`s an internal thing, cross state, so they don`t have to make calls out of jurisdiction etc... this puts the entire data base into one "machine" for wants of a better word. as the "Patriot act" I`ve got no idea either dude, I have heard of it on the news some time back, but wasn`t paying much attn I know there`s plans (if not already implemented) for internet spying, there`s not the level of privacy that was 1`st about and many places I hear no longer need a warrent to access ISP records. also Rumor from a good source said that Microsoft s/ware has 3 backdoors, one is for Billy gates, the other for the NSA and the other for an "Undisclosed party" whatever that means? it may or maynot be true, I dunno, but I sure wouldn`t be surprised either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadote Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 The Patriot Act was passed through US Congress with hardly any debate or dissent after 9/11. The full act can be found here . Some of the powers it gives the government: - The power to access medical, library, and student records without warrant or probably cause, and without informing the person. -Allows for indefinite detention of immigrants. -Allows for 'sneak and peek' searches. This means delayed notification of a search, and no limits on what can be searched. The burden of suspicion has also been lowered. -And the final example I will provide is perhaps the most shocking: Under the USA Patriot Act the Secretary of State has the power to declare foreign or domestic groups a 'terrorist organization" even if the group has not been declared as such. The members of this organization are then declared inadmissible to the US and are deportable, even if they had no knowledge of the designation and regardless of whether their assistance had anything to do with the alleged terrorist activity. Paying membership dues also is a deportable offense. The S of S has the power to declare an organization "terrorist" if they have ever engaged in violent activity. (i.e. PETA, Greenpeace, Operation Rescue). Section 411 of the Patriot Act also violates the first amendment rights of noncitizens. If a lawful resident engages in activities that the SoS determines to be undermining the US effort on counter-terrorism, that resident can be ruled inadmissible to the US upon his return. --Keep in mind these are only a few of the powers that are granted or expanded by this act. By the way, the acronym for the USA PATRIOT Act is "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required To Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iglak Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 i think it also allows the government to capture and detain anyone suspect of terrorist acts, and keep all information of the capture secret. in effect, erase them from existance for a while (kinda like 1984, but without the brainwash... i hope) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegir Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 The Patriot Act was pushed through congress with hardly any debate, resulting in several things being made law that violate the US constitution (1) as well as civil rights and civil liberties (2). For obvious reasons that makes a lot of people pissed that it was allowed to be passed. On the other hand According to a recent report by the justice department there have been no real civil rights/liberties violations under the Patriot Act (3)... yet. (1) (2) (3) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman47 Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 seems like the COINTELPRO during the Cold War, which destroyed the Black Panther Party and the Native American organizations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegir Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Well, that wasnt what it was designed to do, but it certainly has the potential to become that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MishMish Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Is a bit disingenuous at best for the Justice Department to say there have been no violations when the Patriot Act redefines what our rights are In addition, the mere formality of procedure does not mean rights have not been violated. Of the !5000 some odd warrants submitted for FISA review, all were approved ( http://www.epic.org/privacy/wiretap/stats/fisa_stats.html ) Rather hard not to have the question come to mind if that represents oversight or mere rubberstamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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