Blair resigns

[Martin]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/the_blair_years/article1771817.ece

 

Gordon Brown gets a turn.

[Klaynos]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/the_blair_years/article1771817.ece

 

Gordon Brown gets a turn.

 

Someone might stand against him, hahaha!

[Pangloss]

So I'm curious what our British friends think Blair's legacy will be. Will he be listed in the history books as something other than George Bush's crony?

[Klaynos]

So I'm curious what our British friends think Blair's legacy will be. Will he be listed in the history books as something other than George Bush's crony?

 

Probably not, but he also broke the NHS, let his chancellor raid the pension funds, kept very very very few election pledges including "I'll stay the full term" talking at the last election, oh and PFI schemes which basically allow private companies to take lots of money from public bodies and give little back in return, which in about 20 years we will suddenly realise was a REALLY bad idea...

[Sayonara]

So I'm curious what our British friends think Blair's legacy will be. Will he be listed in the history books as something other than George Bush's crony?

 

[ecoli]

could someone cure me of my british political ignorance?

 

How does the prime minister election system work? Is this based on the parliamentary majority party, or something? Is this Gordon Brown guy a shoe in?

[the tree]

Urm yes. The Prime Minister is the leader of the party with the most seats in Parliament. Gordon Brown, as well as being the Chancellor at the moment, is the most likely guy for the Labor Party to chose as their next leader. Although judging by the recent council elections, Labor wont have much time in power anyway.

 

I think Tony will be remembered as the guy that was Bush's crony, broke the NHS, sold the House of Lords and completely screwed with education, education and education.

[ParanoiA]

So is Gordon Brown very popular or is he going to inherit the animosity associated with Blair?

 

I was thinking someone here posted an article or something written by him some time ago and I remember being quite impressed. Not sure if that was the same guy or not, though...

[Dak]

So is Gordon Brown very popular or is he going to inherit the animosity associated with Blair?

 

if your talking about the general population, then brown doesn't need to inherit blairs animosity, as he has plenty of his own.

 

the quite common oppinion is that, as chancellor of the exchequor (not sure if you have this in the US: he's basically in charge of economic stuff, taxation, budget etc) he's introduced lots of stealth taxes, unpopular taxes like inheritance tax, widened the gap between rich and poor, done away with student grants, and all the stuff the tree said.

 

not sure how fair those critisisms are, but they're the common ones.

[Royston]

if your talking about the general population, then brown doesn't need to inherit blairs animosity, as he has plenty of his own.

 

the quite common oppinion is that, as chancellor of the exchequor (not sure if you have this in the US: he's basically in charge of economic stuff, taxation, budget etc) he's introduced lots of stealth taxes, unpopular taxes like inheritance tax, widened the gap between rich and poor, done away with student grants, and all the stuff the tree said.

 

not sure how fair those critisisms are, but they're the common ones.

 

The taxation on small businesses is a joke IMO, and don't even get me started on pensions...a topic that's really hit home, as my Mum is recently retired and my Dad can't retire. The UK is awaiting a change, whether the Tories will deliver is questionable.

[bombus]

Urm yes. The Prime Minister is the leader of the party with the most seats in Parliament. Gordon Brown, as well as being the Chancellor at the moment, is the most likely guy for the Labor Party to chose as their next leader. Although judging by the recent council elections, Labor wont have much time in power anyway.

 

I think Tony will be remembered as the guy that was Bush's crony, broke the NHS, sold the House of Lords and completely screwed with education, education and education.

 

Broke the NHS? You are young so perhaps don't remember how bad the NHS was under the Conservatives. It was Labour who invented the NHS, and the Conservatives will destroy it if they get in as it is against their political ideology - they've always hated the NHS.

 

Blair has been too right-wing with the NHS (PFI etc) but to say he broke it is a gross misunderstanding, and plain wrong.

 

And while I'm on the subject, to blame Gordon Brown for the 'raid on pensions' is nonsense. Big businesses were getting a free ride, and money was needed for improving public services so he closed a loophole. The companies were supposed to make up the shortfall (and had ten years to do so) but chose to make huge profits instead. The tax changes Gordon Brown brought is actually only a small part of the pensions story anyway. The whole 'raid on pensions' thing is just Tory spin.

[bombus]

if your talking about the general population, then brown doesn't need to inherit blairs animosity, as he has plenty of his own.

 

the quite common oppinion is that, as chancellor of the exchequor (not sure if you have this in the US: he's basically in charge of economic stuff, taxation, budget etc) he's introduced lots of stealth taxes, unpopular taxes like inheritance tax, widened the gap between rich and poor, done away with student grants, and all the stuff the tree said.

 

not sure how fair those critisisms are, but they're the common ones.

 

Inheritance tax has been around for decades - over 50 years! Gordon Brown is the first chancellor to raise the ceiling ( a good thing!). And stealth taxes were not invented by Gordon Brown you know, they've been around forever. At least he never increased VAT from 8 to 17.5% like the Tories did!!

 

I'm not a fan of New Labour, but get your facts right please!

[bombus]

The taxation on small businesses is a joke IMO, and don't even get me started on pensions...a topic that's really hit home, as my Mum is recently retired and my Dad can't retire. The UK is awaiting a change, whether the Tories will deliver is questionable.

 

People so easily forget the Tory years.

 

Let me remind you...

 

4 million unemployed

2 recessions

Thousands of small businesses going bust

Thousands of people losing their homes

Destruction of a perfectly viable coal industry

Closed wards in hospitals because the NHS had so little funding

Riots in Brixton and Toxteth

The IRA still active with no hope of peace, and bombs in mainland UK.

Nelson mandela being branded a Terrorist!

Black Wednesday

Interest rates at 15%

Schools not being able to afford books (I was in school at the time!)

 

Never again!!

 

If the Tories are the answer it was a very stupid question!

[Pangloss]

Sorry if I just missed this, but NHS is short for "National Health Service", right? Just trying to follow the convo.

[Klaynos]

Sorry if I just missed this, but NHS is short for "National Health Service", right? Just trying to follow the convo.

 

Yes... They like management consultants

[Dak]

I'm not a fan of New Labour, but get your facts right please!

 

ah, but, the common oppinion is that gordon brown is responsable for breaking the nhs, inheritance tax, etc etc.

 

one thing labour (gordon brown?) definately did that definately sucked was introduce loans rather than grants, after saying that they wouldn't.

[JHAQ]

I just returned from the UK ( where I was born & went to school & college ) after attending a funeral for a close relative . I was staggered by the cost of living there , the congestion , the traffic & the hassle of daily living ( downtown congestion pay to park parking , queues at every check out counter & other obsolete practices ) -- all despite the incredible natural beauty of the country . It cost a pound at least to buy what a dollar buys here & real estate costs are thru the roof . If anything it is an indictment of relentless population growth ( 600 /sq mile ) compared to here ( around 35 sq mile ) .Brown vs Blair ?? They are not the basic problem .

[Royston]

People so easily forget the Tory years.

 

No need, and note I didn't say I supported the Tories. The pension crisis was 'not' Tory spin, this Guardian article sums it up...

 

The Chancellor can argue that he removed a long-standing anomaly' date=' something that was necessary to balance the books and that, at the time, pension funds were flush with cash. Decisions are about weighing the balance of risk and reward and all the Treasury officials did was to identify possible risks.

 

Yet 10 years later, it is obvious the decision did have significant consequences for pension funds. Very few now promise guaranteed benefits to those joining, as they did in 1997, because it is so expensive. Millions will retire in the years ahead with very much lower pensions than their parents. At the same time, companies have spent tens of billions of pounds shoring up their haemorrhaging pension funds, money that could have been invested back into the business. That is in part because of increased life expectancy; in part because of lower interest rates; and in part because of the loss of £5bn of revenue to the Treasury.[/quote']

 

I appreciate what he was trying to do, but it was very faulty reasoning and it's increasingly hard to get a subsidized company pension let alone a decent state pension, and clearly this will get worse with population and life expectancy on the increase. Now, I admit this really doesn't all ride on Gordon Brown, but the matter remains, that these factors were considered, and therefore why I'm a little perplexed with the whole pension fiasco.

 

The situation my parents are in now, will be nothing compared to when somebody my age seeks retirement.

[bombus]

No need, and note I didn't say I supported the Tories. The pension crisis was 'not' Tory spin, this Guardian article sums it up...

 

 

 

I appreciate what he was trying to do, but it was very faulty reasoning and it's increasingly hard to get a subsidized company pension let alone a decent state pension, and clearly this will get worse with population and life expectancy on the increase. Now, I admit this really doesn't all ride on Gordon Brown, but the matter remains, that these factors were considered, and therefore why I'm a little perplexed with the whole pension fiasco.

 

The situation my parents are in now, will be nothing compared to when somebody my age seeks retirement.

 

It may well have had consequences, although there are other issues that have occurred regarding the global economy which have had more of an impact. I'm sure Gordon Brown didn't anticipate that corporations would be so mean (more fool him) - but people should really be pressing the issue with the employers NOT the Government. What ever happened to strikes!

[bombus]

ah, but, the common oppinion is that gordon brown is responsable for breaking the nhs, inheritance tax, etc etc.

 

one thing labour (gordon brown?) definately did that definately sucked was introduce loans rather than grants, after saying that they wouldn't.

 

You are right on both counts. However, it is plain maths that if you expand the student population massively (up to 50%) it has to be payed for somewhere, and if he'd put up taxes people would have complained more.

 

However, I actually disagree with making university education more of a common choice. So long as those that need/want to go to university can do whatever their background I think its fine. The expansion of university education just leads to stupid degrees - I have seen offered a BSc in Estate Agency and get this Traditional Chinese Medicine! (NEWI in Wrexham, North Wales if you don't believe me!). What's the point of having a degree in, say, plumbing - either you're a trained plumber or your not, you don't need an ACADEMIC qualification to plumb!! But that's another story...

[bombus]

I just returned from the UK ( where I was born & went to school & college ) after attending a funeral for a close relative . I was staggered by the cost of living there , the congestion , the traffic & the hassle of daily living ( downtown congestion pay to park parking , queues at every check out counter & other obsolete practices ) -- all despite the incredible natural beauty of the country . It cost a pound at least to buy what a dollar buys here & real estate costs are thru the roof . If anything it is an indictment of relentless population growth ( 600 /sq mile ) compared to here ( around 35 sq mile ) .Brown vs Blair ?? They are not the basic problem .

 

Well, it's unrestrained capitalism really. All the controls have gone so things like the transport system, for example, is in chaos with all different modes of transport competing with each other. Also, you can't very well subsidise a private company 'cos all your doing is subsidising shareholders to make more money! Capitalism works (in the short term) but it needs controls, just like roads need traffic lights and rules...

[Royston]

What ever happened to strikes!

 

They died when fashion was reborn...the end of the eighties

 

Pensions and specifically pensions are threatened globally, but I think you'll find the situation in the UK 'is' more severe. And I agree, it was poor judgement on our future PM's part, that corporate businesses would be generous with their subsidies on pensions. However, these are profit for profit companies, and it doesn't take a genius to realise their rationale means they are forced into a position, whether you agree with that ethic or not.

 

It's a tough one, but I can't say I'm a fan of Gordon Brown...I still think it was shoddy reasoning, whether there was a global influence or not to the pension crisis, taxation on output and reward doesn't make sense to me, it doesn't create revenue or interest for the sub-populations which are not at work, least of all revenue from the working population.

 

I might be missing something, but I'm not impressed...maybe you know something I've overlooked.

[JohnB]

People so easily forget the Tory years.

 

Let me remind you...

 

4 million unemployed

2 recessions

Thousands of small businesses going bust

Thousands of people losing their homes

Destruction of a perfectly viable coal industry

Closed wards in hospitals because the NHS had so little funding

Riots in Brixton and Toxteth

The IRA still active with no hope of peace, and bombs in mainland UK.

Nelson mandela being branded a Terrorist!

Black Wednesday

Interest rates at 15%

Schools not being able to afford books (I was in school at the time!)

How interesting. The Tories are your conservatives right? In Oz it was Labour that did similar things. 1.2 million unemployed, interest rates at 17%, closed hospital wards, "The Recession we had to have". It was the conservatives that got things working again. How fascinating, the difference between Left and Right in different nations.