Do humans have a pathological need....

[JohnB]

To kick a minority?

 

While reading the smoking thread I realised that the major anti arguments boiled down to 6 points about smokers;

 

1. They are dirty.

2. They smell bad. (different)

3. They are diseased.

4. If you hang around them, you will get sick.

5. They are obviously less intelligent than normal folk.

6. Their behaviour should be modified by force (if need be) so they don't "Pose a Danger" to the rest of society.

 

It seemed to me I'd heard these arguments before. Pick any maligned minority from history and you find the exact same comments. They were once used to describe "Blacks" and "Curry Munchers", even to justify apartheit, now it's smokers.

 

The Indians broke the cycle by having a strict caste system with the "Untouchables" at the bottom, a ready made group set up for the kicking. European descended societies however have no set, "predefined" group to harass (although historically the Jews have come close) and so seem to constantly evolve groups to dislike and segregate.

 

This naturally leads to the question "Is there a deep seated psychological "need" to have a target for discrimination?" Is there a compulsion to ensure that no matter how far down the societal ladder someone is, they have someone lower than them to kick?

 

The added bonus with smokers is that the lowest street sweeper can sit in Mc Donalds eating a burger in comfort while the $500,000/year Stock Broker is forced out into the rain to smoke.

 

As a further question; Are the passionate "Anti-Smokers" who are out to "save" the smokers "For their own Good" a modern psychological equivilent to those who advocated the spread of European Empires to bring "civilization" to the "savages"?

 

Giving any group of humans a common enemy has long been acknowledged as the best way to rally support for an idea (or person). If you can find "scientific proof" that lends support to your idea and at the same time demonizes the enemy, so much the better. (See points 3 and 4 above.) If however, you can convince people that the discrimination is actually for the benefit of the oppressed group then you are on to a real winner.

[Callipygous]

while i can see some similarities, i still find the comparison to racism a bit misguided.

 

the difference is that being around a black person wont actually get you sick, they arent actually less intelligent or more dirty just by being a different color. smokers DO actually smell, the smoke CAN actually get you sick, and while i think it would be an incorrect assumption, i can see why someone would think that someone who chooses to do that would generally be less intelligent.

 

the main reason smokers are shunned is because the rest of us have to suffer for their addiction. if you could smoke, and i would never have to smell it, or breathe it, there would be no problem. go ahead and suck down all the cancer you want, but theres no reason i should be forced to either breath tainted air, or move because of it.

 

its no more shunned than someone would be if they chose to go around farting on people. if fart air is what does it for you, great, have at it. but theres no reason we should put up with it.

 

as for your main focus here, yeah, i think the natural tendancy is to kick the people below you. it makes you feel better about yourself.

[Phi for All]

Pick any maligned minority from history and you find the exact same comments. They were once used to describe "Blacks" and "Curry Munchers", even to justify apartheit, now it's smokers.

But smokers can quit smoking. It's a voluntary thing. There's no "patch" to help you stop being a minority. You don't have a choice. I think that's where the discrimination begins and ends.

[ajb]

There's no "patch" to help you stop being a minority. You don't have a choice.

 

Michael Jackson tried that....

[JohnB]

Callipygous, Phi, sorry I wasn't clear. I was in no way trying to show similarities between racism and anti smoking, they are not the same thing.

 

I was noting the similarities between the reasons people give for their discrimination.

the difference is that being around a black person wont actually get you sick, they arent actually less intelligent or more dirty just by being a different color.

Of course not, but a racist will tell you they are.

as for your main focus here, yeah, i think the natural tendancy is to kick the people below you. it makes you feel better about yourself.

But if there's no easily defined group below you to kick? Do humans then feel the need to create one?

 

I wasn't out to reopen a smoking debate.

[abskebabs]

But if there's no easily defined group below you to kick? Do humans then feel the need to create one?

Interestng question. I feel there should be another question that should be asked alongside with this that may be on a more personal level with ppl. Do we need to feel we are better than other ppl at something or in some way to feel better about ourselves. Do we need a hierarchy where we can see we are not at the bottom, so we can safely say to ourselves, "it could be worse". I can see how these ideas in regard wth racist ideas, regardless of how delusional they are could yield similiar feelings in ppl if this were the case.

[Callipygous]

But if there's no easily defined group below you to kick? Do humans then feel the need to create one?

 

the person doesnt need to be defined as fully "below" you, just so long as there is something for you to dislike about them. its not like people go around fishing for groups and trying to define them as lower, you just have certain opinions about what things are good and bad and people tend to be judgemental and "kick" the bad.

[house21]

People do love to hate, it is just a matter of finding the right group of people

[Norman Albers]

I was raised in suburban New York City, in the middle of Long Island. West Side Story said much about situation.

[ecoli]

I was raised in suburban New York City, in the middle of Long Island. West Side Story said much about situation.

 

Representin middle LI! what part are you from?