Rechargeable nuclear batteries

[Genecks]

Would it be possible to make a rechargeable nuclear battery?

You know, the kind of batteries that last a super, super long time.

 

Is there a rechargeable type?

Can a rechargeable type be made?

How possible would it be to recharge one?

How long would it take to recharge? Months? Years?

[SkepticLance]

A typical nuclear battery would be the type sent on the Callisto probe to Saturn. Very, very big. Very, very inefficient. Very, very environmentally unfriendly. That is why it went to Saturn instead of staying on Earth.

 

To recharge, simply remove spent nuclear fuel and replace with fresh. Very quick. Not very practical for down to Earth activities.

[swansont]

What do you mean by a nuclear battery? Batteries are, by definition, chemical. Are you referring to a betavoltaic current source (i.e. current from beta decay electrons) — or possibly even an alphavoltaic cell, or a radioisotope thermal generator (RTG), or something else?

 

Genrally speaking, no, you don't "recharge" these things I've mentioned above. You could try and run the reactions backwards, which is incredibly inefficient, or use something like neutron activation to generate new radioactive isotopes, but these would be different than the original isotopes powering the source.

[swansont]

A typical nuclear battery would be the type sent on the Callisto probe to Saturn. Very, very big. Very, very inefficient. Very, very environmentally unfriendly. That is why it went to Saturn instead of staying on Earth.

 

No, "environmental unfriendliness" would not be the reason it was sent away from the earth.

[Spyman]

A typical nuclear battery would be the type sent on the Callisto probe to Saturn. Very, very big. Very, very inefficient. Very, very environmentally unfriendly. That is why it went to Saturn instead of staying on Earth.

No, "environmental unfriendliness" would not be the reason it was sent away from the earth.

I doubt the reason for sending it to Saturn was because it was so big or inefficient also...

 

RTGs are usually the most desirable power source for unmanned or unmaintained situations needing a few hundred watts or less of power for durations too long for fuel cells, batteries and generators to provide economically, and in places where solar cells are not viable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator

[SkepticLance]

My earlier statement was :

 

That is why it went to Saturn instead of staying on Earth.

 

OK, Ok! You got me. Aarrgh. Bullets in the vitals.

 

My wording was clumsy. I should have said " "That is why we cannot use that kind of power source on Earth."

[insane_alien]

but we do use that kind of power source on earth. plutonium batteries for pacemakers. automated light houses, the navy uses a bunch. etc. etc.

[SkepticLance]

To insane alien.

 

Apart from a few very specialised uses for nuclear energy, or very large scale reactors, nuclear power does not make a practical 'battery' for everyday use.

 

It is, as I said, inefficient and hazardous. On the scale of a nuclear power station, it becomes efficient and the hazard can be managed. If you want something like a power source to run a car, a house, a light bulb, then nuclear 'battery' is not it.

[insane_alien]

never said it wasn't. and i wasn't suggesting we use these everywhere. you just said:

"That is why we cannot use that kind of power source on Earth."

and i provided counter examples.

[Pangloss]

This raises something that I've wondered about from time to time regarding the Viking program of Mars landers. They were RTG-powered, which I've always thought meant that there was a nuclear device on board which provided an ongoing supply of power. But the eventual failure (after long success) of both units was ultimately related to their loss of battery capacity.

 

In the case of Viking 1 an errant command caused the loss of communication, but the reason for the command was to upload new software designed to improve battery efficiency, to stave off the gradual decline in battery power. In the case of Viking 2, the unit was shut down (yes, shut down) when its batteries stopped working. These attributions to me sound like the situation with a several-years-old laptop or cell phone -- the battery just becomes kinda useless after a while.

 

That bit about Viking 2 is particularly confusing, because it implies that the unit still had operational power at the time it was shut down, but that operators expected to lose that power at some point due to the loss of those "batteries", so they "shut it down".

 

Are they saying that sometimes it ran on the RTG, and at other time it ran on "batteries"? And if so, why was this necessary?

[swansont]

This raises something that I've wondered about from time to time regarding the Viking program of Mars landers. They were RTG-powered, which I've always thought meant that there was a nuclear device on board which provided an ongoing supply of power. But the eventual failure (after long success) of both units was ultimately related to their loss of battery capacity.

 

In the case of Viking 1 an errant command caused the loss of communication, but the reason for the command was to upload new software designed to improve battery efficiency, to stave off the gradual decline in battery power. In the case of Viking 2, the unit was shut down (yes, shut down) when its batteries stopped working. These attributions to me sound like the situation with a several-years-old laptop or cell phone -- the battery just becomes kinda useless after a while.

 

That bit about Viking 2 is particularly confusing, because it implies that the unit still had operational power at the time it was shut down, but that operators expected to lose that power at some point due to the loss of those "batteries", so they "shut it down".

 

Are they saying that sometimes it ran on the RTG, and at other time it ran on "batteries"? And if so, why was this necessary?

 

 

From NASA:

"Power was provided by two radioisotope thermal generator (RTG) units containing plutonium 238 affixed to opposite sides of the lander base and covered by wind screens. Each generator was 28 cm tall, 58 cm in diameter, had a mass of 13.6 kg and provided 30 W continuous power at 4.4 volts. Four wet-cell sealed nickel-cadmium 8-amp-hour, 28 volt rechargeable batteries were also onboard to handle peak power loads."

 

So it had an RTG and battery power. But as the batteries degraded, it could no longer handle demands greater than the RTG output (which would decrease over time)