Nano Technology Implications

[mooeypoo]

Hey guys,

 

I'm writing a fiction story, and I want to do my best and make it as close to realistic as possible in terms of science. I am trying to avoid "schmaltzy" obvious non-realistic crap most sci-fi novels do, and I would appreciate help.

 

So, it's time to speculate scientifically.

 

What would happen to a person/group-of-people who have nanobots in their blood stream? What logical implications can that do?

 

I am trying to figure out both "good" and "bad" side-effects.

 

I'll give some examples I thought of, and would love it if you could tell me how realistic this could be, or what it would demand.

 

Here's my basic thoughts for example:

 

"Good Implication" -- Rapid healing. For instance, if someone is stabbed, the wound heals relatively quickly. I doubt it could take seconds or minutes like in current sci-fi movies, but perhaps relative to the depth of the wound, the 'nanobots' can repair tissue. This is a known and well used 'implication', but again - i would like to get things as "right" as possible.

 

"Bad implication" -- The need for energy. I would imagine nanobots require energy, and I was thinking perhaps more than regularly used by the body. Perhaps a person would get tired more easily? or need more food? or specific types of food? Is that logical? perhaps jolts of electricity "recharge" the nanobots? I'm throwing ideas here..

 

Anyways, I would appreciate any suggestion, as close to realistic as possible. Please try to suggest both good and 'bad' implications, I don't want "perfect" humans.. I want realistic futuristic "feature".

 

Would it affect the brain? could they "broadcast" wirelessly to one another? Okay, now I'm seriously throwing wild ideas but.. heck.. it's for a story.

 

Realistic as possible, but still a fiction story

 

Thanks in advance! I'm sure we can have fun speculating what could happen to a group of people with functional nanobots in their blood stream..

 

~moo

[swansont]

I think Roger Zelazny did a short story on this (possiby from Unicorn Variations, or maybe The Last Defender of Camelot) that covers certain implications.

 

Anyway, one could make it so that the nanobots make digestion more efficient, and/or use energy from processes that the human body can't do (e.g. get energy from what we can't digest, like fiber). So, no inherent need to get tired more easily.

 

Or have them be solar powered, and they tap into the melanin in one's body to be more efficient at absorbing light; everyone with nanobots gets very dark skinned.

[mooeypoo]

So wait.. no "bad" implications at all? perfect humans? If we have nanotechnology in our bodies, we turn perfect? It sounds... unrealistic..

[insane_alien]

well, obviously there is the chance of something going wrong like the nano-bots eating your body. generally there would be safety measures in place (such as the bots aren't active unless they are in close proximity to a transmitter of some kind) and so on.

[mooeypoo]

What about radio transmissions? Can they allow the ability to remotely communicate with computers? Wi-Fi style? That would imply controlling brain pathways though..

 

Anyways, again guys, I'm looking for incredible abilities that can be "simply explained" with nanotech. And no perfect human unless perfection is the REAL implication..

 

~moo

[insane_alien]

well, the nano-bots them selves would not be likely to have any real processing capability. at most they would have a few sensors that would send a signal back to the controlling computer. the controlling computer would then send out instructions to the nanobots like little RC cars. the bots wouldn't speak to each other. though, there could maybe be a hierarchial system of bots

[mooeypoo]

Hm I didn't think about that.. so the bots would be more like "drones" and if you want to use any of the 'abilities' you may need a 'master' computer near you to control them...? So if there's a computer console (hand held / watch.. whatever.. ) then the person would be able to control the bots?

 

Why wouldn't it be possible for the person's BRAIN to control these bots btw? isn't the brain somewhat like a processor itself? If the bots are in nthe blood stream, they're in the brain as well... perhaps some sort of new neural connections could control these nano tech things?

 

Thanks for the help btw

 

~moo

[insane_alien]

well, if we can make a sufficiently accurate mind/machine interface and some sort of training program then yeah its possible the mind could control them. it's going to require some sort of implant though. and then you would have to switch it off in your sleep incase you accidentally tell them to do something horrible to yourself.

[mooeypoo]

Yes, the entire point is that this is a sci-fi futuristic story, hence us speculating

 

I just want the speculations somewhat realistic.. "what COULD happen in the future" kinda thing. In any case, if nanobots DO roam someone's blood, they may be used to BUILD those pathways, and then a person could control them, theoretically. No? Maybe some lengthy "training" period is due? Only people with high mental control can do that? what could be the limitations?

 

This, actually, is awesome. It gives me the "bad" implications. Mental stability is essential, meaning people may have to go through some physical/mental training to control them? perhaps there are a few things they can't control?

[insane_alien]

if your going for the realistic route for a bad effect its going to be centred on the human. the bots will only do what they are told. unless there is some sort of A.I involved.

 

If there is an A.I. involved that say has the function of keeping everybody safe, you could have the A.I. using the nanobots to turn the human race into zombies. or some evil organization gaining control of them

 

there are a myriad of things you can do that are withing the realms of possibility. just don't go crazy on it and it'll be believeable.

[mooeypoo]

Yeah, no no, I would rather not use A.I, this would be the 'bad effects' of AI not of nanobots.

 

The 'bad' effects i was looking for is more side-effects of having nanobots in the bloodstream.. one of the things i dislike about over-done scifi stories is that they create perfect humans. Nothing is ever perfect. The story is not going to concentrate on the sideeffects, but i do want to make it balanced so that i *don't* go "overboard" with the great perfect applications of nano tech.

 

~moo

[insane_alien]

how about allergic reactions? your white-blood cells would probably attack the nano-bots. this can be stopped with immuno-suppresants but that'll cause a whole lot of ill-health

[mooeypoo]

hmmm wow. Nice.

 

But ill-health is too far for me, I want functional individuals with inconvinience, not ill-health ones. But that's a great application.

 

If I make my character healthier than normal because of those bots, but in need to take special medication (some chemical to make the bots 'fit' with the whitecells) and the medication occasionally cause a bit of tiredness and some occasional headaches -- is that enough to be a plausible scenario?

[swansont]

So wait.. no "bad" implications at all? perfect humans? If we have nanotechnology in our bodies, we turn perfect? It sounds... unrealistic..

 

Unrealistic? We are talking about science fiction, right?

 

No, my suggestions were not meant to be all-inclusive. You can certainly come up with bad implications (that what the Zelazny story is about — what if the nanobots become sentient?) What if they start doing their function in the wrong way, or work on the wrong cells? What if they get jammed up in an artery and cause a blood clot?

[ParanoiA]

Just an observation, but I love the implication of nanobots doing harm in your sleep because you forgot to turn them off. Sounds like a note taken by the the main character as he's being educated - reference some graphic photos...

 

Also, the nano-jam in the artery sounds like a sweet addition to the death quota.

 

What about a brand new disease or illness that attacks the nanobots and is thus, incurable? Suddenly, everyone with nanobots, the "superior" human, is marked for death. I don't know...

[mooeypoo]

Oh yes, there are many roads to go on that one, but I don't plan to have my story on the nanobots.. I have a different story, but people that carry "incredible abilities" that - later on - are explained scientifically - is one of the main ones. I was thinking of nanobots as one route, have some thoughts on another. In any case, that's why I don't want to concentrate on the AI-gone-bad thing.. it's not the story.

 

I don't want 'perfect' people, i want incredible-abilities that can be explained through science. If I create magnificent abilities I want to make them at least - in theory - be plausible, which is why I'm looking for the "bad" effects as well.

[insane_alien]

ahh right i get where your coming from now. well, you've mentioned rapid healing abilities, that one would be possible with nano-bots assuming they have a sufficiently advanced controller.

 

some that i can think of:

 

1/stronger bones, get them to replace your bones with some kind of metal(titanium maybe)

2/more accute vision, the nanobots redesign/replace the retina/whole eye to have greater focus, sensitivity and possibly expand the available spectrum as well.

3/i suppose they could do something to provide greater strength as well.

4/might be able to get away with a built in taser

5/can control computer operated machinery(ala Terminator:rise of the machine but more believeable)

[Edtharan]

your white-blood cells would probably attack the nano-bots. this can be stopped with immuno-suppresants but that'll cause a whole lot of ill-health

Well you could have the nanobots seek out and destroy white blood cells and the sites where they are "manufactured". This would effectively eliminate any immune reaction (as you wouldn't have an immune system that could react). Because of this, the nanobots would have to take over your immune system. The reaction time of them would most likely be slower (as they would have to be upgraded - either software or hardware - to handle any new diseases). But the upside is that you would have reaction free people and the nanobots can be much more easily "inoculated" to any known diseases (it is just the new ones you have to worry about).

 

A nanobot immune system would be more flexible, easier to adapt to a new pathogen, able to be reprogrammed if something goes wrong (eliminates autoimmune diseases) but they will have less capacity to automatically adapt to unknown pathogens.

 

Another use for nanobots in preventing diseases is for them to seek out any pathogenic organisms in the body and then if that pathogenic organisms (and nanobots) leave the host body, the nanobots would destroy the cells of the pathogen. This would make communicable diseases almost impossible as they would be destroyed if they ever left their host.

 

Rapid healing. For instance, if someone is stabbed, the wound heals relatively quickly. I doubt it could take seconds or minutes like in current sci-fi movies, but perhaps relative to the depth of the wound, the 'nanobots' can repair tissue.

Well for this to occur, the nanobots would have to get the "material" to seal the wound and create the new connecting tissue.

 

They would work better if they could seal off major arteries (and then be easily unclotted when needed), deliver pain killers and attack invading pathogens (see above).

 

One way nanomachines could be used in healing is to guide cells into place in wounds. These cells could be grown in a vat outside the body (and be identical to the patient's own cells so no rejection concerns) and then sprayed onto a wound (with the nanobots) the nanobots would move them into place (and act as connecting tissue until the body rebuilds its own).

 

These kinds of nanobot would not nessesarily need long term power supplys as they could be charged before being sprayed and then once they run out of power the body would filter them out of the blood (you might get some funny coloured urine).

 

Rapid healing. For instance, if someone is stabbed, the wound heals relatively quickly. I doubt it could take seconds or minutes like in current sci-fi movies, but perhaps relative to the depth of the wound, the 'nanobots' can repair tissue.

Nanobots that are to be implanted in the body and move through the blood supply would most likely use glucose as their fuel as this would occur in the body anyway (and the body uses it for fuel too). So the person would have a higher energy demand (but not really that much more - it would depend on how many of the nanobots you would have in your body).

 

Would it affect the brain?

you could have them electrically/chemically stimulate the brain, but we have cells that do that now.

 

If they use chemicals (and any nanobot system that could deliver chemicals, not just the ones in a brain), then the nanobots would have to have some way of manufacturing the chemicals or only carry a limmited supply of them (weekly treatments to "resupply" your nanobots could be a drawback).

 

The alternative is implanted "Nanofactories" that use nanmachines to build chemicals (or even solid structures) from raw materials (and energy to make the factories work). These would take raw materials from the body and recycle them into useful chemicals.

 

And if you have nanofactories that can work on the atomic level, then you could "scan" someone (maybe using nanobots themselves to do the scanning) and then if a person is killed (or not) an atomic level nanofactory could then rebuild then form scratch (but only up to the time that the were scanned at). Using cybernetic implants (which could be installed or even built of nanobots) to handle memories, then you might be able to "live stream" you memories to an external device and then if you body gets killed unexpectedly, you can be reconstructed and you memories uploaded into the "New" you.

 

If you have nanobots permanently in a body, then these could be used to constantly scan a person and then while they are asleep, this information is uploaded to their "Insurance Plan Server" and if they are killed the next day, they can then be reconstructed and they will not loose too much of their life.

 

could they "broadcast" wirelessly to one another?

Unlikely as this would require an antenna and receiver/transmitter circuits. The frequencies available to devices that small would take a lot of energy and because of the high frequency, not be able to travel far. Chemical signalling would most likely be the method used or electrical signalling (passing small electric fields through a body that can be detected by the nanobots). However, the nanobots could not "broadcast" this way as it would take too much power to do so (they might get a short range version to talk to near by nanobots).

[mooeypoo]

Well for this to occur' date=' the nanobots would have to get the "material" to seal the wound and create the new connecting tissue.

 

They would work better if they could seal off major arteries (and then be easily unclotted when needed), deliver pain killers and attack invading pathogens (see above).

[/quote']

 

Yeah I was thinking a lot about that actually.

 

Instead of healing in the "regular" way, I was thinking the nanobots would create (using themselves) a sort of "stitches" at the first stage, and then would need some sort of another biological material to completely correct the tissues. So, if that person is away from their "lab" where the biological matter is available, they are being "treated" by the nanobots (like a doctor?) like.. being stitched, even internally.. it's a temporary measure until they go somewhere where biological substance is available to supply the bots with something to truly correct the damage.

 

Will that be okay?

 

So the person would have a higher energy demand (but not really that much more - it would depend on how many of the nanobots you would have in your body).

On the same note -- as long as a person is healthy, he's good, but if he's injured in some way, is it plausible that the person would demand higher amounts of energy..?

 

Unlikely as this would require an antenna and receiver/transmitter circuits.

 

My idea was more of this sort -- the nanobots create new pathways in the brain that allow for more control of a device the person is carrying on him (in the form of a hand-held device, or something). The device ITSELF allows communication (receiver/transmitter) but the new brain pathways allow controlling it using the brain ("thought").. plausible enough?

 

So, to partially summarize:

 

I have characters who are relatively normal to the outside world, but they require regular "immunizations" to "upgrade" the bots to new type of diseases.

They can heal faster than normal, but demand more energy to do that, and some biological material to fully "heal".

 

That covers it?

 

~moo

[Rasori]

Just a suggestion, I think it would be most realistic for these nanobots, as mentioned, to have an external computer controlling their actions. I also find it much more likely that the nanobots would have some sort of weapon, I think a taser was suggested before, which may or may not work, to combat virii and bacteria than to have chemicals to combat them--this would allow for software upgrades of the nanobots rather than hardware upgrades, making these regular "immunizations" simple software upgrades of the computer--new recognition patterns for new diseases.

 

Of course, this allows for all sorts of downfalls with possible misfires or glitchy coding. Mayhaps these characters who have "extraordinary abilities" are really the experimenters of this technology, so the creators have gone a little overboard--beyond what they're really ready to do, or possibly even beyond what's likely possible, thus suggesting there would be mishaps with the "weaponry" or glitchy code, or, even, a rival company or other saboteur putting in glitchy recognition patterns, having the nanobots destroy normally helpful cells.