What really drives our tides? A theory.

[fleep]

Hi;

 

I've always been skeptical that gravitation is any kind of "force", and I have (seperately available) reasons why; but the following is just a bunch of my thought-provoking ideas and some excerpts from net sources.

 

Please excuse the inclusion of some definitions that would be elementary to experts and most amateurs. They are contained in this thesis simply to remind the writer of their meanings and relevance.

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Newton’s Law of Gravitation (Mechanical)

 

Every single point mass (Earth) attracts every other point mass (Moon) by a force pointing along the line combining the two. The “both-way” force is proportional to the product of the two masses (multiplied by each other) and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the point masses:

 

F=G m1 m2

r2

 

F is the magnitude of gravitational force between the two point masses (Newtons - N)

G is the gravitational constant (“Force”) (Approx. = to 6.67 × 10−11 N m2 kg−2)

m1 is the mass of the first point mass (Earth) (Kilograms - kg)

m2 is the mass of the second point mass (Moon) (Kilograms - kg)

r is the distance between the two point masses (Earth to Moon) (Metres – m)

 

(Note: G was first measured by Henry Cavendish in 1798; after Newton's death. Newton could not use the value G. He could only calculate a force relative to another force.)

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A) = Coulomb - "The magnitude of the electrostatic force between two point (both-way) charges is proportional to the magnitudes of each charge and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the charges."

B) = Newton - “Every single point mass (Earth) attracts every other point mass (Moon) by a force pointing along the line combining the two. The “both-way” force is proportional to the product (multiplied by each other) of the two masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the point masses”.

 

(Coulomb's Law (Electrical) equals Newton's 3rd Law of Motion (Mechanics), i.e. - "To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"; or, "All forces occur in pairs, and these two forces are equal in magnitude and opposite in direction".)

 

Is Cavendish’s apparent “G force” actually caused by electricity through the courtesy of the magnetosphere?

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Here are some abbreviated excerpts from Wikipedia and NASA sites.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetosphere

 

http://science.nasa.gov/ssl/pad/sppb/edu/magnetosphere/

 

“In space, magnetic fields owe their existence solely to electric currents, with no role for ferromagnetism.” (i.e. – no earthly magnetic “attachment”)

 

Magnetic fields from currents that circulate in the magnetospheric plasma extend the Earth's magnetism much further in space than would be predicted from the Earth's internal field alone. Such currents also determine the field's structure far from Earth.

In everyday applications, electric currents always require a "voltage" to drive them, (an electric pressure “difference” known as "electric potential"). Not so in the magnetosphere (and in many plasmas) where currents (with one important exception) need no voltage to drive them. Any electric current is the transport of electric charge, but in many cases, such transport is already implied by the structure of the field and the plasma. Viewed from above the northern magnetic pole, ions circulate clockwise, electrons counterclockwise, producing a net circulating clockwise current, known (from its shape) as the ring current. No voltage is needed--the current arises naturally from the motion of the ions and electrons in the magnetic field.

 

Any ring current will modify the magnetic field. The ring current strengthens the field on its outside, helping expand the size of the magnetosphere. At the same time, it weakens the magnetic field in its interior. In a magnetic storm, plasma is added to the ring current, making it temporarily stronger. The field at Earth is observed to weaken by up to 1-2%.

 

The deformation of the magnetic field, and the flow of electric currents in the ring are intimately linked, making it often hard to label one as cause and the other as effect. Frequently (as in the magnetopause and the magnetotail) it is intuitively more useful to regard the distribution and flow of plasma as the primary effect, producing the observed magnetic structure, with the associated electric currents just one feature of those structures, more of a consistency requirement of the magnetic structure.

 

As noted, one exception (at least) exists; a case where voltages do drive currents. That happens with Birkeland currents, which flow from distant space into the near-polar ionosphere, continue at least some distance in the ionosphere, and then return to space. (Part of the current then detours and leaves Earth again along field lines on the morning side, flows across midnight as part of the ring current, then comes back to the ionosphere along field lines on the evening side and rejoins the pattern.) The full circuit of those currents, under various conditions, is still under debate. (Could this be a nighttime space-based magnetic force that “bends” our atmosphere and pushes the tides along?)

 

Because the ionosphere is an ohmic conductor of sorts, such flow will heat it up. It will also give rise to secondary Hall currents, and accelerate magnetospheric particles--electrons in the arcs of the polar aurora, and singly-ionized oxygen ions (O+) which contribute to the ring current.

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Magnetic North Pole, the shifting point on the Earth to which the "north" end of a dipole magnet points.

(For historical reasons, the "end" of a magnet that points towards the North Magnetic Pole is itself called the "north pole" of the magnet, with the other end being the magnet's "south pole". Because it is unlike poles that attract, the Earth's North Magnetic Pole is therefore physically a magnetic SOUTH pole.)

A magnetic dipole is a closed circulation of electric current. A simple example of this is a single loop of wire with some constant current flowing through it.

 

In physics, a magnetic monopole is a hypothetical particle that may be loosely described as "a magnet with only one pole". Some current models suggest that while magnetic monopoles exist in principle, they are so massive that they may never be observed in practice.

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NASA says: The interaction between the solar wind and the plasma of the magnetosphere acts like an electric generator, creating electric fields deep inside the magnetosphere. These fields in turn give rise to a general circulation of the plasma within the magnetosphere and accelerate some electrons and ions to higher energies.

During periods of gusty solar wind, powerful magnetic storms in space near the Earth cause vivid auroras, radio and television static, power blackouts, navigation problems for ships and airplanes with magnetic compasses, and damage to satellites and spacecraft. Events on the Sun and in the magnetosphere can also trigger changes in the electrical and chemical properties of the atmosphere, the ozone layer, and high-altitude temperatures and wind patterns. =================================================

 

If science is still debating the functions of the magnetosphere, (and even the Van Allen Belts), why do we stick to a theory that’s over 320 years old, and knew nothing of solar wind, the magnetosphere, Birkeland currents, or Negative Pressure? The magnetosphere appears to be a functionally independent magnetic pressure facility that affects the Earth, and even its tides. Newton (or Cavendish) might not be pulling the tides, but we can even watch Coulomb’s Law at work in the northern skies” at night.

 

Coulomb’s law: “The magnitude of the electrostatic force between two point charges is directly proportional to the magnitudes of each charge and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the charges.”

 

Wiki says: “When measured in units that people commonly use, the Coulomb force constant, k, is numerically much larger than the universal gravitational constant G. This means that for objects with charge that is of the order of a unit charge © and mass of the order of a unit mass (kg), the electrostatic forces will be so much larger than the gravitational forces that the gravitational force can be ignored.”

 

When the Coulomb factor is considered completely, what if an electrostatic force in the Magnetosphere continually controls an independent (not actually connected to Earth or Moon) “magnetic pressure bridge” that pushes the tides ahead of the moon’s unchanging face?

The iron rich basaltic Lunar Maria cover about 16% of the lunar surface, mostly on the face we always see. That percentage corresponds with what is commonly thought to be a “1/6th” gravity level on the moon, (or about 16%) as compared to our own. This should all raise what would have to be considered a primal question:

 

What explains our tides? Is it magnetism and Coulomb, or is it Newton?

 

Thanks for any feedback.

 

fleep

[Sayonara]

What explains our tides? Is it magnetism and Coulomb, or is it Newton?

Thanks for any feedback.

 

Errr... it's Einstein actually. For the moment.

[fleep]

Errr... it's Einstein actually. For the moment.

Hi;

Yep, you're right. I should certainly have mentioned him. General relativity is a theory of gravitation developed by Einstein. Gravitation as a force in any form is what I'm theorizing against. I say that gravity is only the weight of matter, and is not an externally-functioning "force" of any sort.

I'll explain my reasonings for that if you like, but first I'd like to hear a more complete answer/questioning about the possible involment of the magnetosphere's participation as a "player" in the motion of the tides, based on the data supplied in my original message. O.K.?

 

Thanks

 

fleep

[Klaynos]

Ignoring everything else...

 

You do not seem to cover the fact that EM fields can be very effectively shielded, and we can measure them quite accurately... Whereas gravitational fields CANNOT be shielded....

 

In physics, a magnetic monopole is a hypothetical particle that may be loosely described as "a magnet with only one pole". Some current models suggest that while magnetic monopoles exist in principle, they are so massive that they may never be observed in practice.

 

How do you justify this statement in terms of the maxwell equation:

 

Del . B = 0

[foodchain]

Ignoring everything else...

You do not seem to cover the fact that EM fields can be very effectively shielded, and we can measure them quite accurately... Whereas gravitational fields CANNOT be shielded....

 

 

Not that I doubt you, I just don’t understand how the shielding works. Does this mean no atoms where present?

[Klaynos]

Not that I doubt you, I just don’t understand how the shielding works. Does this mean no atoms where present?

 

No, not at all.

 

It just means that because there is +ve and -ve charges if I have two -ve charges, and I put a +ve charge between them, the effect of the -ve charges on each other is greatly reduced by adding this new charge. Similar arguments can be made for magnetism. But with gravity, there is no -ve gravity so there can be no shielding. This is why over large distances we see gravity as the dominant force, dispite it being so much weaker if you consider the EM force between two charged particles and the gravitational attraction between them.

[lucaspa]

Hi;

but first I'd like to hear a more complete answer/questioning about the possible involment of the magnetosphere's participation as a "player" in the motion of the tides, based on the data supplied in my original message. O.K.?

 

Question: we can measure the strength of the earth's magnetic field; therefore what is the magnetic field of moon? How strong is that in relation to the earth's magnetic field?

 

If there is this magnetosphere pressure bridge that passes with the tides, wouldn't that disrupt compasses? How about affecting radio (electromagnetic) signals?

 

What you want to look for, Fleep, are OTHER consequences of this magnetosphere pressure than simply the tides. When you make a hypothesis, look for lots of consequences of the hypothesis, and then start looking for those consequences in an attempt to show the hypothesis WRONG. It doesn't look like you've done that.

[insane_alien]

have you tried calculating how magnetic fields would affect the tides? its been done with gravity and it predicts what we see.