Thimerosal in flu vaccines

[ultma]

dosnt sound nice they used to use this stuff all the time.

 

I have heard not sure about how true this that if you get three flu vacinnes in 3 years your Alzheimer's risk increases

 

In the body the thio mercuryl group is cleved to relese ethyl mercury, organo mercurails are worse than their inorgainc salts

 

what about babies when they get multidose vaccines they still have this stuff in them apparently(trace or more maybe?), babies have a much smaller body mass and are still developing

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thimerosal

 

I dont get the flu and have never had a flu vaccine, glad i havnt now

[lucaspa]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thimerosal

 

I dont get the flu and have never had a flu vaccine, glad i havnt now

 

If you read the entire article, you should have come across this paragraph, quoted from a paper:

 

"The key findings of the present study are the differences in the disposition kinetics and demethylation rates of thimerosal and MeHg. Consequently, MeHg is not a suitable reference for risk assessment from exposure to thimerosal-derived Hg. Knowledge of the biotransformation of thimerosal, the chemical identity of the Hg-containing species in the blood and brain, and the neurotoxic potential of intact thimerosal and its various biotransformation products, including ethylmercury, is urgently needed to afford a meaningful interpretation of the potential developmental effects of immunization with thimerosal-containing vaccines in newborns and infants. This information is critical if we are to respond to public concerns regarding the safety of childhood immunizations."

 

IOW, we don't know how dangerous thimersol in vaccines really is. It may not be dangerous at all, because the levels of thimersol are so low.

 

Depending on your age and immune status, the risks from having the flu could be far higher than any possible risk of the flue vaccine.

 

You need to find out what the actual data is, not just "I have heard not sure about how true this"

 

You can check out anything medical on PubMed. Just enter your search terms separated by "AND" or just a comma. So, if you go to http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez and enter "thimerosal, Alzheimer" you get "no items found". This means that there are NO scientific studies on the rumor you heard. Therefore the statement "if you get three flu vacinnes in 3 years your Alzheimer's risk increases" has no basis in science. It's a rumor.

[ultma]

true it does seem like a rumor but i bet it plays a part with dental amalgam and dietry Hg

 

there are some studies on mercury and Alzheimer's Disease

 

there is 25ug of Hg in a flu vaccine

 

the daily limit is 0.1 ug/kg/day

 

this is direct into the blood stream and able to cross the blood brain barrier where alot of it will be converted into ionic Hg, ionic Hg resides in the brain for longer

 

Are pregnant women encourgaed to have flu vaccine's in the USA, but yet they told not to eat fish higher in the food chain.

 

I bet ther is more Hg in a flu shaot that a piece of shark

 

true it does seem like a rumor but i bet it plays a part with dental amalgam and dietry Hg

 

there are some studies on mercury and Alzheimer's Disease

 

there is 25ug of in a flu vaccine

the daily limit is 0.1 ug/kg/day

 

This is direct into the blood stream and able to cross the blood brain barrier where alot of it will be converted into ionic Hg, ionic Hg resides in the brain for longer

 

Are pregnant women encourgaed to have flu vaccine's in the USA, but yet they are told not to eat fish higher in the food chain.

 

I bet ther is more Hg in a flu shot that a piece of shark

 

the eldarly are encoruaged to have flu shots, imparied renal and hepatic function would lead to Hg elimination difficulties

[John Cuthber]

I just wonder about that wiki article. It tells me that there has been little research into the toxicity of this stuff. The stuff has been used for years, it was licensed by many authorities across the world. It was recemntly re-investigated because of some tripe about autism.

It would have had its toxicity studied before it was licensed, then again over the decades through the adverse effect reporting systems then again on the autism bandwagon. It's a bit like saying that the toxicity of alcohol hasn't been researched.

 

An interesting thing about dental amalgam is that it stays in the teeth (generally, unless the fillings fall out). I have some fillings that are older than some of my friends.

It's certainly true that there will be a statistical correlation between people getting flu jabs and people getting alzheiner's disease. That's not cause and effect; it's just that old people are likely to get the disease and the jabs.

It seems that, having caused a lot of fuss over nothing in the MMR/autism farce the media have decided to invent another "problem" Alzeimer's from thiomersal. A lot of cash will now be diverted from real research on this horrible disease to look at something that can't be the culprit.

Alzheimer's rates are climbing but both the use of thiomersal and the use of other mercurial drugs has been falling. How does less Hg cause more brain problems?

[waitforufo]

Although I do believe exposure to mercury should be avoided, I wonder just how toxic this element truly is. Mercury compounds were commonly prescribed as medication in the 19th and early 20th century for ailments such as apoplexy, worms, tuberculosis, toothaches, constipation, and hypochondriasis. Children were often treated for worms in the 19th century with mercury compounds. Abraham Lincoln took a medication called blue mass, which contained mercury, before he became president and for some time just after. He only stopped taking the medication because one of his cabinet members told him that it made him argumentative. Mercury compounds were a common treatment for syphilis. Today, archaeologists search for the campgrounds of the Lewis and Clark expedition by looking for latrine sites containing mercury. Virtually all of the expedition members suffered from illnesses which they treated with mercury. Almost everyone over the age of 30 at one time or another has had silver amalgam dental fillings. You can still get silver amalgam fillings. These fillings contain mercury. Then there is fish consumption. Is there a fish that does not contain mercury? Tuna is often found to be high in mercury, yet it is popular. I have heard people at sushi restaurants discuss raw tuna as a health food.

 

The most common side effect of long term mercury exposure is depression and argumentative temperament. Both of these were suffered by Lewis and Lincoln. With such high exposure experienced by people in the past I have a hard time believing that the small exposure one experiences from a vaccine is anything to worry about. As with all toxins, there is an exposure level below which no harm can be found.

[ultma]

it all depends on the type of Hg aswell

 

inorganic salt

organomercurial

elemental

 

organicmercurial being the worst

 

dimethyl mercury is something I wouldnt dance with

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylmercury

 

Minamata, will someone please think of the cats

http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/dimethylmercury/dmmh.htm

 

but I also think there is some research that suggests we need a base trace amount of Hg aswell

 

as for the autism thing most of it is bad science (like blaming increasing cpu speed for increasing HIV infections)

but the omish thing is a little freaky

[lucaspa]

true it does seem like a rumor but i bet it plays a part with dental amalgam and dietry Hg

 

You can "bet" all you want. What matters is data.

 

there are some studies on mercury and Alzheimer's Disease

 

That is different from studies on thimerosal and Alzheimer's. What are the studies and are they looking at organic or inorganic mercury? You have to be careful extrapolating those to thimerosal.

 

there is 25ug of Hg in a flu vaccine

 

the daily limit is 0.1 ug/kg/day

 

That's per day. Remember that. The flu shot is given ONCE. So, for a 110 pound woman (50 kg), that comes to 5 ug Hg per day. So, the woman got 5 days worth of Hg in one. Shot. So she doesn't eat fish for the rest of the week and she is still ahead (see below).

 

I think you are getting your information from autism sites. There has been a discussion in the lay public about a link between autism and thimerosal. You need to check all these figures before you cite them as fact.

 

For instance: yes, there is 25 ug of Hg in 0.5 ml of a flue vaccine. However, many vaccines have no Hg at all: http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/thi-table.htm

 

Are pregnant women encourgaed to have flu vaccine's in the USA, but yet they told not to eat fish higher in the food chain.

 

Not true. They are told "Because methylmercury and high levels of elemental mercury can be particularly toxic to unborn or young children, organizations such as the U.S. EPA and FDA recommend that women who are pregnant or plan to become pregnant within the next one or two years, as well as young children avoid eating more than 6 ounces (one average meal) of fish per week.[26] "

 

So they are told to limit their fish to 6 oz per week. The flu shot is a one time thing.

 

this is direct into the blood stream and able to cross the blood brain barrier where alot of it will be converted into ionic Hg, ionic Hg resides in the brain for longer

 

I bet ther is more Hg in a flu shaot that a piece of shark

 

Sharks have high levels of Hg, at about 1 ppm. A 6 oz steak is 180 gm (about 30 g/oz). That is 180 million micrograms. At 1 ppm that is 180 ug. Lots more Hg in shark than a flu shot.

 

How much did you bet? Pay up.So, if you have one shark steak per week, your daily Hg intake averages to 26 ug Hg/day.

 

Although I do believe exposure to mercury should be avoided, I wonder just how toxic this element truly is. ... Almost everyone over the age of 30 at one time or another has had silver amalgam dental fillings. You can still get silver amalgam fillings. These fillings contain mercury. Then there is fish consumption. Is there a fish that does not contain mercury? Tuna is often found to be high in mercury, yet it is popular. I have heard people at sushi restaurants discuss raw tuna as a health food.

 

Again, you can get all this info on PubMed.

 

You have to remember that there are different types of toxicity. What is not toxic to an adult can be very toxic to a developing fetus. And it is here that Hg is very toxic. It's a potent teratogen and interferes with the development of the brain if present during embryogenesis.

 

You also have to remember pharmacokinetics. The Hg in fillings stays there. You need the Hg to be ingested (food) to be absorbed by the GI tract, inhaled as from a broken thermometer, on the skin or cuts in merthiolate, or injected via thimerosal.

 

With such high exposure experienced by people in the past I have a hard time believing that the small exposure one experiences from a vaccine is anything to worry about. As with all toxins, there is an exposure level below which no harm can be found.

 

Again, Lewis and Lincoln experienced Hg exposure as adults. Exposure to fetuses and infants is different. Remember thalidomide. No toxicity in adults, was a really potent teratogen.

[ultma]

 

That's per day. Remember that. The flu shot is given ONCE. So, for a 110 pound woman (50 kg), that comes to 5 ug Hg per day. So, the woman got 5 days worth of Hg in one. Shot. So she doesn't eat fish for the rest of the week and she is still ahead (see below).

 

Sharks have high levels of Hg, at about 1 ppm. A 6 oz steak is 180 gm (about 30 g/oz). That is 180 million micrograms. At 1 ppm that is 180 ug. Lots more Hg in shark than a flu shot.

 

How much did you bet? Pay up.So, if you have one shark steak per week, your daily Hg intake averages to 26 ug Hg/day.

 

 

5 times the limit in one go wouldnt be good if you are pregnant, now rember thats iv into the blood, is the limit set becuase greater than the limit in one go can cause harm?

 

it all comes down to the person aswell.

how good is a mg/kg/day basis if its affecting your brain?

 

thats alot of shark for one meal it also depends on water quality my country has good water so its probly less, and shark isnt injected iv. But i would say you are right.

 

most of the world has moved away for Hg amalgum so there must be a reason, is it possiable that some of the Hg from fillings can escape?

 

as for thimersol

able to cross the blood brain barrier where alot of it will be converted into ionic Hg(from ethyl Hg), ionic Hg resides in the brain for longer

 

yeah but its probly no biggie but you think they could use something better, still i would avoid at all costs if i was a pregnant women

[John Cuthber]

I don't seem to get flu when it does the rounds but if I did and I were, for example, asthmatic or elderly, then I would have to weigh up the risk from a tiny amount of mercury against the very real risk of dying from the complications of flu. That might be a cost that I wasn't prepared to pay. Think about that when you say "I would avoid it at all costs" the cost might be your life.