Online Privacy

[Sayonara]

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4217665/

 

MSN reported recently on the ease with which private, personal and sensitive information can be dug up - either at random or through targeted searches - using public and legal tools such as Google.

 

The issue of information rights online is a contentious one, but my question is simple.

 

If people make their details available to one public service online (be it "Friends Reunited" style sites, WHOIS records etc), do they still have a right to privacy? If so, at what point does use f that information become abuse?

[LuTze]

The way I look at it, putting anything on the web (whois is a little different..) is just like sticking it in a public library. People can't go whining about it if someone finds it - those who go putting things on unprotected websites that shouldn't be there need hitting with a very large cluestick.

 

Whois information is slightly different, since you have to provide some information for it if you want a domain. The best thing to do for the moment while it isn't illegal is to give false details.

 

If this moron gets his way though, that'll be a $150,000 offence: -

 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/35376.html

[Sayonara]

People would be more willing to fill in details for WHOIS properly if they knew it could not be harvested by anyone who wants to use it for reasons other than contacting the domain registrant.

 

I agree to a large extent that putting information on the web - addresses, phone numbers and images - is of course throwing yourself on the mercies of a vast and diverse community (which, in all likelihood, if you're posting such details - you don't understand very well).

 

E-mail addresses on the other hand should not have to be hidden away. They're an integral part of the nature of the web, discussion groups etc. and it seriously annoys me that they have to be obfuscated, hidden away or what have you to protect them from people who are essentially stealing data for their own profit.

[atinymonkey]

I have yet to understand what people think they will gain from knowing your name. It's not the voodoweb. What's the worst someone can do with your address, sign you up for junk mail? Thousands of people know where I live, that a homeless guy in west Gubuta finds it out does not worry me. Even if they could be bothered dragging themselves to your door, ignoring the legal issues, they are going to be a bit surprised when you turn out not to be a 12 year old troglodyte. They'll be even more surprised when you don't capitulate in their mere presence

[Sayonara]

Well, the article was more to do with things like social security numbers and the docking locations of warships, but point taken. It's certainly relevant to the issue of personal data.

 

Although it may not bother you, does "any old Joe" have the right to access that info?

[YT2095]

SS number, passport details, driving liscence details, medical etc...

anything that can be used to commit fraud for either organised crime or terroism shouldn`t even be accesible over the public internet.

all the rest of it however should be just like ordinary life, anyone can missdial and get your house fone by accident, even if you`re ex-directory. lord knows how many people walk past your house each day (so in theory they know your address).

personaly, I don`t really care who knows mine, in fact everyone in my chat rooms knows where I kive or can fone me (and have done). there`s no harm in them knowing really, what`s someone gunna do if they know where ya live? LOL

[Sayonara]

Someone can dial your number by accident, but unless they deliberately ask a string of specific questions while deceiving you into thinking they have some reason to ask them, they won't know who's at the other end of the line and therefore can't tie the number to an identity.

 

To a certain extent, the same goes for addresses.

[YT2095]

sure, but even if they do call you to get this info or play up, it`s their 10p they`re wasting

and so they know where you live, they`ve still got to do something about it 1`st

 

[edit] I think I`de make it law that no one under 18 can legaly enter personal details however (name, address, fone #, and age).

the rest should be up to the adult individual what information they wish to part with, more or less as it is now.

 

[Sayonara]

I'm sorry but your first paragraph is not relevant to the discussion, even as a metaphor. You're dealing with random chains of events, instead of the rights-to-data issues.

 

Your idea for denying the right to distribute such details to minors is a possible step forward, but I can't really see how anyone could enforce it.

There is an opt-out for new WHOIS registrations now, which qualifies as "things moving in the direction of your last sentence".

[YT2095]

well 50% aint bad!

 

as for minors, well that`s quite easy, do the same as on porn sites, use credit card age verification or implement Internet passports and make them mandatory

nothing more difficult that that

[JaKiri]

YT2095 said in post # :

as for minors, well that`s quite easy, do the same as on porn sites, use credit card age verification or implement Internet passports and make them mandatory

nothing more difficult that that

 

I don't quite get what you're proposing to implement here.

 

WHERE would this be applicable?

[YT2095]

domain registration and/or ANY personal details, will require a I-net passport as proof of age before registering or submiting personal details.

I think it would be a great idea, that way, no-one under 18 can do that, and anyone UNDER 18 needs an adult to go ahead and do it.

eitherway, if it gets abused, the supervisior (passport holder) will know the kid and details for the police inquirey.

though I`m sure someone`s gunna b!tch at me again for having an opinion!

[JaKiri]

Any personal details?

 

That's making it VERY difficult to sign up to a LOT of websites. Most notably email programs, and stuff like the NintentoPoints system. It's just an extra layer of hassle, when for most things there are alternatives without this problem*. How many kids (or parents for that matter) are going to want the other half of the equation to spend so much time mucking around with what they want to do? It also discourages legit users (for instance, I wouldn't want to use my CC details to do anything online except buy things), and for very little gain.

 

It would surely be much more useful to actually tell people to not fill in information such as that on suspicious sites.

 

*This also applies to your porn analogy. A quick search on google for relevent terms came up with some 71,600 results.

 

[edit]

 

You're also still assuming that there's some kind of character assassination going on. I prefer shooting the message than the messenger.

[YT2095]

your last few points have been in action now for the last 3 to 4 years, although you and |I know it`s prudent not to give such info. a child may not (hence the bad rep that chatrooms etc.. have)

there`s a few kids that join my chat room, hence the no swearing policy and subjects are kept clean else an OP will stomp on you!

we also get to know the parents and actively invite them to chat too (it`s usualy the paraents that bring the kids on )

 

fine if you disagree with the passport thing (it would only be a number verification), but I personaly think that something along those lines would be a good idea, maybe not the EXACT plan I fronted, but similar should work I recon

[JaKiri]

Whilst you can make up situations that will horrify everyone, I don't think there's particularly any real danger of anything happening because of address release.

 

Furthermore, (re: censorship) I find that teenagers tend to swear more than any other demographic group (except maybe geordies).

[Sayonara]

Credit card validation has worked wonderfully on the issues it is implemented to solve, but in this instance it won't.

 

We'd be casting more personal information onto the web in order to protect what was already there.

 

I think the thread is headed more along the lines of the "let's assume everyone over 18 who can register for a service that might allow people access to their data will be aware of this risk, or not care, or not realise they have a choice", instead of along the "do people have the right to access information that is supported for someone else's benefit?" lines I intended.

 

If that makes any sense

[YT2095]

ok then, I know nothing, sorry for my thoughts, I`ll let you all get back to it, and come up with the sollution that you`re bound to.

[Sayonara]

Well, the credit card thing would work if you could implement it across the whole net. But that ain't gonna happen

 

As soon as people are required to identify themselves to get information, you open up a gaping niche market for those who don't want to.

[JaKiri]

Sayonara³ said in post # :

Well, the credit card thing would work if you could implement it across the whole net. But that ain't gonna happen

 

As soon as people are required to identify themselves to get information, you open up a gaping niche market for those who don't want to.

 

I don't particularly see why it would work, especially as the issue is designed for children and their parents to use ('I'm not posting my CC information all over the internet!!!!!')

[Sayonara]

I mean as a unilateral measure ensuring someone is who they say they are.

 

I don't particularly care about that side of the argument anyway. I'm interested in the abuse of data rights.

[JaKiri]

Sayonara³ said in post # :

I mean as a unilateral measure ensuring someone is who they say they are.

 

I don't particularly care about that side of the argument anyway. I'm interested in the abuse of data rights.

 

I thought the latter was what we were talking about

[Sayonara]

What I mean to say is that I am interested in the intangible side of rights to information, not in discussing control methods that involve technologies or vastly impractical implementation methods.

[JaKiri]

Sayonara³ said in post # :

What I mean to say is that I am interested in the intangible side of rights to information, not in discussing control methods that involve technologies or vastly impractical implementation methods.

 

This is why more things need the precise language of science.

[Sayonara]

Sayonara³ said in post # :

If people make their details available to one public service online (be it "Friends Reunited" style sites, WHOIS records etc), do they still have a right to privacy? If so, at what point does use of that information become abuse?