battle over the melting north

[Sisyphus]

With the icecaps melting at an unprecedented rate, the Arctic Ocean and lands north are suddenly not looking quite so useless as they were before. Soon there will be fully navigable sea routes north of Russia and Canada, potentially cutting thousands of miles off of many shipping routes. Glacier-locked islands are now potential ports as whole new coastlines appear, and vast natural resources, including a whole lot of oil, will soon be accessible.

 

While some are still insisting global warming is some kind of elaborate hoax, an international power struggle between governments who do take it seriously is already beginning. Canada and Denmark are involved in bitter territorial disputes, with some of the most hilariously polite saber-rattling the world has yet seen. (Several planted flags have been removed and graciously presented to their respective embassies.) Canada is also launching an ambitious "boots on the ice" campaign to establish more permanent and substantial military presence in the Northwest Passage, and the Canadian navy aggressively challenges all ships passing through (including even American vessels). Most bizarre of all, Russia has planted a flag on the bottom of the ocean at the north pole, asserting a right to the seabed and all resources therein contained.

 

This last is a product of a maritime law treaty which, for some reason, gives nations control over continental shelves which extend from their territorial waters. It is signed by over a hundred nations, including all the major sea powers except (predictably) the United States.

 

For now it's mostly just a bunch of weird news items and Daily Show fodder, but the fact is that a lot of people are taking this very seriously, and a lot of money and strategic advantage is at stake. So what do you guys thinK? A new colonial era in the north? Panicked overreaction?

[SkepticLance]

Probably time for a few international summit meetings to sort out details peacefully. Norway and Canada need to sit around a table and agree on new boundaries.

 

The business of Russia planting an underwater flag is a subset of a larger issue - that is, who owns the oceans.

 

This is important, since international waters get over-exploited by everyone and there is no control. Down here in the south, we are looking at the incipient extinction of the Patagonian toothfish, which lives in deep international waters, and is over-fished by every nation that cares to try.

 

I would like to see the oceans carved up by international treaty, with responsibility for controlled exploitation given to nations that border those oceans. That way the open slather approach can be curtailed.

[CPL.Luke]

can we keep the freedom from tax though? I always enjoy the stories of ships going out to seea and slashing cigarrette prices by 75% and such, with the oceans carved up then none of that will happen anymore, alo you have to look at the potential for nations to block access to other nations ports by virtue of denying transit through they're waters.

[Reaper]

I've read the Russians are trying to claim a huge piece of the North Pole right now by sending geologists over there. They have even planted a flag on the bottom to claim territory.

[ParanoiA]

I think it will be interesting to see how close we still are to the rotten behavior we scoff at when reading our history books. I think many folks believe we're past that, judging our ancestor's behavior by modern day after-the-fact standards.

 

In a sick way, I'm kind of hoping several countries lose their clout of innocence and thereby remind the inhabitants of earth that we're not exactly removed from the atrocious colonialism of our past. Maybe then we wouldn't judge our forefathers with such pretension.

[Reaper]

I think it will be interesting to see how close we still are to the rotten behavior we scoff at when reading our history books. I think many folks believe we're past that, judging our ancestor's behavior by modern day after-the-fact standards.

 

In a sick way, I'm kind of hoping several countries lose their clout of innocence and thereby remind the inhabitants of earth that we're not exactly removed from the atrocious colonialism of our past. Maybe then we wouldn't judge our forefathers with such pretension.

 

History never repeats itself, but it does rhyme.

[CDarwin]

The business of Russia planting an underwater flag is a subset of a larger issue - that is, who owns the oceans.

 

This is important, since international waters get over-exploited by everyone and there is no control. Down here in the south, we are looking at the incipient extinction of the Patagonian toothfish, which lives in deep international waters, and is over-fished by every nation that cares to try.

[/Quote]

Russia accepts the current treaties on territorial waters. Their claim to the North Pole is based on an underwater structure known as the Lomonosov Ridge which they claim is an extension of their continental shelf.

 

I would like to see the oceans carved up by international treaty, with responsibility for controlled exploitation given to nations that border those oceans. That way the open slather approach can be curtailed.

That'd be a pretty good way to start World War III...

[SkepticLance]

To CDarwin

 

I am not sure how good a claim you can make on the basis of continental shelf extensions.

 

New Zealand has an enormous continental shelf area. If we accept that any part of that shelf is NZ territory, then we own Norfolk Island and MacQuarie Island. I suspect that such a claim might get the Australians a bit annoyed!

[CDarwin]

To CDarwin

 

I am not sure how good a claim you can make on the basis of continental shelf extensions.

Talk to the Russians. It might have something to do with the fact that Russia controls so much of the northern Eurasian seacoast, where as New Zealand is just a little bump on the Australian plate. I'm not really sure. Are there any maritime lawyers on the forums?

[SkepticLance]

CDarwin said :

 

New Zealand is just a little bump on the Australian plate.

 

I am going to challenge you to pistols at dawn for that comment!

NZ is a small country above water. But our continental shelf is enough to make us a continent, believe it or not. And Australia is a small part of the New Zealand plate. From our view point, it is just a large and very dry sand bank off to the west.

[Sisyphus]

New Zealand: Australia's Canada

[CDarwin]

CDarwin said :

 

New Zealand is just a little bump on the Australian plate.

 

I am going to challenge you to pistols at dawn for that comment!

NZ is a small country above water. But our continental shelf is enough to make us a continent, believe it or not. And Australia is a small part of the New Zealand plate. From our view point, it is just a large and very dry sand bank off to the west.

 

You don't even have a continent according to National Geographic. You're an orphan island chain.

[SkepticLance]

To CDarwin

 

Ah, but you should have seen us before the sea level rise that followed the end of the ice age.

[iNow]

Ah, but you should have seen us before the sea level rise that followed the end of the ice age.

 

Was that before the vacuum tube was invented?