The impact of chemistry on cosmology

[pioneer]

Most models of the universe are more geared toward physics. I would like to add something associated with the time between the formation of the primal hydrogen and where gravity takes over to make structures. In this span of time, chemical affects should be the dominant affect.

 

For example, if we have an expanding cloud of ionized H, the H and electrons are sharing in a very openly distributed way. This is sort of like glue that just keeps the hydrogen from diffusing away. Essentially the EM forces and the outer orbitals of H help bind the cloud. The further down the energy levels the electrons can get the more stabile the H atoms.

 

The coolest zone will be on the outside of the cloud, since energy can radiate the easiest there. Eventually, H2 forms since this will become more stable than H atoms when temperature drops to a certain point. The bond enengy is 103 Kcals/mole. The formation of H2 makes the hydrogen much more inert, such that the H2 begin to quickly diffuse away from the cloud. The hotter cloud is still bound by the sharing of electrons. What the inert and rapid movement of H2 away, brings to the table, is more contact with open space, eventually allowing liquid and solid H2.

 

As liquid and solid particles of H2 form, the ionized cloud continues to cool giving off H2 at its perimeter, that is quickly diffusing away. These little liquid/solid seeds collect H2 and get bigger. The growing specks of liquid and solid H2 continue to slow down as they grow. The result are a carpet of gravity seeds as the ionized H cools and the H2 spreads out. Using these little seeds gravity is now able to can act much easier. It is hard to prove but it does give a simple way to seed the early stars.

 

Part of the reason I went this way to seeds the earliest stars, was the practical difficulties of maintaining a stable center of gravity within light material that is very prone to diffusion. Even if a slight density discontinuity formed, it won't just sit there. As soon as gravity begins to focus in, it is gone. Rather that play dice with the earliest stars I figure give them some meat to bite into. The chemical angle gives slow chunks onto which centers of gravity could get a much easier bead.

[John Cuthber]

"In this span of time, chemical affects should be the dominant affect."

 

Why?

 

It's far to hot for any bonds to form and, until the hydrogen has colapsed into stars waited till they burned down a bit and got fused into the heavier elements, there's only hydrogen.

Only one element doesn't give you a lot of scope for chemistry.

Essentially no chemistry takes place until planets start to form.

[insane_alien]

even after planets form, the volume of matter in the universe in a position to react chemically is miniscule compared to the volume not in a position to react chemically.

 

there may come a time in the universe when the stars are burning out that chemical effects do become the dominant in the universe but that isn't quite yet.

[pioneer]

When there was only hydrogen, there are a very limited number of chemical affects that can occur. There are certain radical states of hydrogen in an ionized cloud. There is H2 as a gas, liquid and solid.

 

But in modern times, chemical affects can explain things like dark matter. It would easier to simulate dark matter in the chemical lab than it would be to do it in the physics lab. Any endothermic reaction will not give off energy. It will absorb energy and will not give off any emission. It will appear like it is not there, or look like dark matter.

 

Here is Florida during the summer you can see little dark gray clouds floating near bright white clouds. These are dark matter clouds. What they are doing is absorbing the light with very little emission back. If you melt a solid or vaporize a liquid one would get the same type of affect.

 

If you look at the background microwave radiation of the universe, all you would need to generate microwaves are polar molecules rotating. That is how a microwave oven works. The microwaves generate an electric field that causes the polar water molecules to rotate in an attempt to align with the dipole. This causes friction, whic heat things up in a microwave. Even if the background came from the beginning of the universe, there may be chemical affects that parallel or contribute to this background.

[Royston]

But in modern times, chemical affects can explain things like dark matter. It would easier to simulate dark matter in the chemical lab than it would be to do it in the physics lab. Any endothermic reaction will not give off energy. It will absorb energy and will not give off any emission. It will appear like it is not there, or look like dark matter.

 

Here is Florida during the summer you can see little dark gray clouds floating near bright white clouds. These are dark matter clouds. What they are doing is absorbing the light with very little emission back. If you melt a solid or vaporize a liquid one would get the same type of affect.

 

Compounds that absorb radiation e.g water are not dark matter. The speculations forum is there for a reason. Despite this, light scatters above dark (dense) clouds, as well as being absorbed, that is why they appear darker from the earth.

 

Dark matter has absolutely nothing to do with what you're talking about.

[insane_alien]

yeah, darkmatter does not actually interact with light which is why we can see through it without any altered emmision spectra.

 

chemical effects in the universe are actually pretty visible, especially if the have a star near them as we can get really good data from the spectra then.

[John Cuthber]

"There is H2 as a gas, liquid and solid."

Didn't you understand the bit about it being too hot?

"But in modern times, chemical affects can explain things like dark matter."

Plain wrong.

"Here is Florida during the summer you can see little dark gray clouds floating near bright white clouds. These are dark matter clouds."

Plain wrong again.

 

"What they are doing is absorbing the light with very little emission back."

Wrong, yet again.

 

Please go and learn some physics and chemistry before posting stuff like this.

[pioneer]

I should have used the polticially correct terms; chemistry creates conditions that could be mistaken for phenomena in physics. I didn't mean to intrude or be rude and crude.

 

The original model, where I used solid hydrogen, to seed galaxies, by providing some big solid chunks for gravity to focus on, has some extra data, which I found, which is very provocative.

 

Here are the melting point of H, D, and T.

 

H 13.6K

D 18.73K

T 20.62K

 

With the solid hydrogen seed theory, D and T solids will form first in ennriched states, due to their higher melting points. These would not only be the heaviest chunks per given size, but they would also be highly enriched in D,T. This puts concentrated D,T in the center of a forming star for easier fusion start-up. But what does chemistry have to do with cosmology, anyway?

 

The existing theory is pretty thin and should join me in speculations. I would like to see them simulate that theory in the lab near me.

[insane_alien]

but we can detect matter that hot as it stands out against CMBR.

 

and we don't know how common deuterium and tritium are. tritium is probably nearly non existant due to its low half life. deuterium will be less common than it is on earth probably.

[pioneer]

I was using the existing assumption that all the isotopes of hydrogen formed during the creation of the early hydrogen. Let me continue with this chemical state analysis to show how it brings other things to the table that can set the stage for fusion.

 

Say we have a core of solid deuterium/tritium, because the melting points are so low it won't take much gravitational work until these solids melt and then the liquid begins to boil and then vaporized, It will still be hundreds of degree below zero. What the boiling brings to the table is an acceleration in core pressure. It is sort of like heating a bottle of water. The bottle will explode due to the phase change from liquid to gas causing roughly a 1000-fold expansion within the volume. But gravity is fighting back, causing a bulk collapse of all this mass aginst an amplification of the internal pressure. The core of the collaspe would begins to form a hollow due to the internal pressure, with this pressure amplifying faster than what we would expected from the gravity pressure alone.

 

When the D-D finally gets hot enough to ionize, the matter dynamics will change due to the plasma state of the matter. The D atoms can now begin to share the bulk ionized electrons in a more spread out way. The result is a pressure drop/gravity collapse that slams the core for fusion.

[John Cuthber]

"I should have used the polticially correct terms; chemistry creates conditions that could be mistaken for phenomena in physics. I didn't mean to intrude or be rude and crude. "

This is nothing to do with terminology; it's to do with you not understanding what "hot" means.

 

"Say we have a core of solid deuterium/tritium"

No, don't say that, because the early universe was very hot, far too hot for these gases (one of which barely exists) to solidify.

[insane_alien]

I was using the existing assumption that all the isotopes of hydrogen formed during the creation of the early hydrogen.

 

got anything to back up this assumption? it should have left significant amounts of deuterium hanging around the place.

 

Say we have a core of solid deuterium/tritium, because the melting points are so low it won't take much gravitational work until these solids melt and then the liquid begins to boil and then vaporized,

 

so ehh, how did these solids form? you know back when the CMB (which would be equilibrium temperature) would have been higher than the boiling points of any of these isotopes? if your going to assume things make sure they're possible.

 

one more point, if the solid core has already formed, that means that the gravitational action has already happened.

 

It will still be hundreds of degree below zero. What the boiling brings to the table is an acceleration in core pressure. It is sort of like heating a bottle of water. The bottle will explode due to the phase change from liquid to gas causing roughly a 1000-fold expansion within the volume. But gravity is fighting back, causing a bulk collapse of all this mass aginst an amplification of the internal pressure. The core of the collaspe would begins to form a hollow due to the internal pressure, with this pressure amplifying faster than what we would expected from the gravity pressure alone.

 

so this core would have to be the size of a star before it boils? otherwise its going to act like a conventional bomb and disperse its self.

 

When the D-D finally gets hot enough to ionize, the matter dynamics will change due to the plasma state of the matter. The D atoms can now begin to share the bulk ionized electrons in a more spread out way. The result is a pressure drop/gravity collapse that slams the core for fusion.

 

any proof of this. surely we would have evidence of this. like extreme amounts of deuterium floating about and what about the tritium. this should also mean that stars further away should be much denser because of the heavier isotopes.

[pioneer]

The bottom line is nobody has proof for the creation of the universe. It comes down to everyone speculating. It is sort of like religion with the biggest religion pretending their speculation is top dog(ma). I don't mean to be rude, but things right in front of us, that we can place under instruments, are still leading to new discoveries. So anyone who believes the intangile of 15B years ago has been reduced to the final knowledge is deluding themselves.

 

Changing subjects back to the dark matter clouds. The other day, the sky was full of them with some really good ones. I was going to take a photo and post it, but I am good at photoshop and figured anyone else who knows how to use that program, could say that this is done with air brush and layers. It would be too easy to ignor if you don't wish to see.

 

What I suggest is contact NASA. Cocoa beach is about 2-3 hours south of where I live. Ask them to tell you about these dark clouds. From where I live I can see the space shuttle heading into the upper atmoshere, when launches occur in the early evening all the way to night darkness. The weather conditions should be similar and the dark matter clouds should be verifiable. These dark clouds look like clouds of gray smoke floating among the white clouds. The gray implies much less reflected emission.

 

If you even notice thunder storms these often show very dark clouds. This might be explained due to opacity. But what I noted was, even with the front having the sun shining on it, the front of the cloud still looked very dark. For example, during morning storms from the west, heading east, the front is still very dark looking, even with the eastern sun shining on it. These dark clouds are absorbing energy until they discharge the energy. Lightning is one of the ways to help reduce the potential.

 

If a cloud of chemical matter was absorbing energy in space, one would see what appears to be very low, if any emission, in that region of space. The low level of emission would not tell us about the size of the cloud since most of it would be hidden due to the endothermic affect. If it was to build up potential, the potential could reach a breaking point. All of a sudden we have a zone in space, which now appears to be emitting very high levels of emission, that are more in proportion to the matter that is actually within that zone.

 

For example, if we didn't know the clouds in the earth's sky were made of water vapor, who would figure something as powerful as lightning could appear from the relative weak binding forces between water molecules. It would make more sense to attribute the 100Million volt lightning with enough current to power many houses for a year, to nuke powered clouds. Chemicals emit from the range of UV all the way to radio waves. The X-rays on up is where the nuke phenomena take over from chemistry.

[insane_alien]

The bottom line is nobody has proof for the creation of the universe. It comes down to everyone speculating. It is sort of like religion with the biggest religion pretending their speculation is top dog(ma). I don't mean to be rude, but things right in front of us, that we can place under instruments, are still leading to new discoveries. So anyone who believes the intangile of 15B years ago has been reduced to the final knowledge is deluding themselves.

 

and this has what to do with anything here? you want to discuss the origon of the universe start a new thread.

 

Changing subjects back to the dark matter clouds. The other day, the sky was full of them with some really good ones. I was going to take a photo and post it, but I am good at photoshop and figured anyone else who knows how to use that program, could say that this is done with air brush and layers. It would be too easy to ignor if you don't wish to see.

 

uhuh, you can see things that don't interact with light? very interesting. care to explain how you can do this?

 

What I suggest is contact NASA. Cocoa beach is about 2-3 hours south of where I live. Ask them to tell you about these dark clouds. From where I live I can see the space shuttle heading into the upper atmoshere, when launches occur in the early evening all the way to night darkness. The weather conditions should be similar and the dark matter clouds should be verifiable. These dark clouds look like clouds of gray smoke floating among the white clouds. The gray implies much less reflected emission.

 

oh your talking about the clouds of condensed water droplets in the atmosphere. right. thats not dark matter. they are remarkably visible. especially in other wavelengths. the grey colour is caused by an increased density of the water droplets(water droplets per cubic meter no the actual density of a droplet)

 

If you even notice thunder storms these often show very dark clouds. This might be explained due to opacity. But what I noted was, even with the front having the sun shining on it, the front of the cloud still looked very dark. For example, during morning storms from the west, heading east, the front is still very dark looking, even with the eastern sun shining on it. These dark clouds are absorbing energy until they discharge the energy. Lightning is one of the ways to help reduce the potential.

 

still nothing to do with dark matter.

 

If a cloud of chemical matter was absorbing energy in space, one would see what appears to be very low, if any emission, in that region of space. The low level of emission would not tell us about the size of the cloud since most of it would be hidden due to the endothermic affect. If it was to build up potential, the potential could reach a breaking point. All of a sudden we have a zone in space, which now appears to be emitting very high levels of emission, that are more in proportion to the matter that is actually within that zone.

 

but you see, dust clouds do this. we can detect them easily though. you know how? we know when light is being absorbed. not all wavelengths get absorbed or reflected at the same intensity. also the edges are more dispersed so we can see stars that are partially obscured.

 

For example, if we didn't know the clouds in the earth's sky were made of water vapor, who would figure something as powerful as lightning could appear from the relative weak binding forces between water molecules. It would make more sense to attribute the 100Million volt lightning with enough current to power many houses for a year, to nuke powered clouds. Chemicals emit from the range of UV all the way to radio waves. The X-rays on up is where the nuke phenomena take over from chemistry.

 

uhuh.... right. and how does this answer previous points i made? how does ANY of this post even begin to relate? in short WTF are you talking about?

[YT2095]

could he be talking about "SUNSPOT" activity?

[insane_alien]

can we take it from the absence of a reply that either

 

1/ suns... pioneer is talking out of an orifice that is not his mouth

or 2/ suns... pioneer is trying to draw attention away from the insinuation that he is infact sunspot AND talking out of that other orifice.