Psychic Abilities

[Pre4edgc]

Ok. First things first. Do you believe in any such thing, one way or another? I'm not a firm believer. I get freaked out a little if someone does it, but I usually attribute it to chance, or just good memory or cheating.

 

But, anyway, and I hope this is the right place to post, what do you think will be the best way to test someone on whether or not they can "examine" something without examining it firsthand? Like a vision or something. Assuming this phenomenon is real, what would you think the best way to eliminate any real variables will be, like eliminating all means of communication, and all means of viewing the test material?

 

Me and a friend want to design an experiment using all scientific processes including the scientific method. We want people in a control group, and two variable groups. Those being: 1) Those who believe in it, and know about the experiment, and 2) those who DON'T believe in it, and know about the experiment. We want the control to not know what the experiment is about until afterwards.

 

Any suggestions?

[bombus]

I don't think it's impossible, and it doesn't necessarily go against established ideas about the universe, just adds a few more maybe...

 

There was an experiment done in some UK university where one person had to guess who was on the end of a telephone call before they picked up the receiver. There were four people who it could have been on the other end.

 

I think statistically there is a 1 in four chance of guessing correctly.

 

However, the experiment was repeated many times and the results could not be accounted for by chance alone, i.e., there were too many correct guesses!

 

A repeat of that expt would be interesting!

[FastTrack]

I successfully predicted the outcome of coin flipping 27 times in a row once.

 

I simply stopped at #27, but I could have kept on going.

 

12 of the flips were done by myself. The remainder were done by one of the previous observers who said that I must have been cheating by having practiced coin flipping beforehand. The remainder of flips were done with me facing away from the newly appointed flipper.

[Klaynos]

Pre4edgc, the first thing you need to do is look up what is meant by a double blind test.

 

And then think of something with a low statistical chance of someone guessing.

[FastTrack]

Pre4edgc, the first thing you need to do is look up what is meant by a double blind test.

 

And then think of something with a low statistical chance of someone guessing.

 

There is a 50/50 chance of correctly predicting a coin flipping. However, this changes when the demand is to predict a significant number of correct predictions in a row. Therefore quantity is also a factor.

 

The odds of me correctly predicting the coin flipping 27 times in a row, was 1 in 134,217,728 (2²⁷).

[Pre4edgc]

Well, I've been thinking of exactly how to do this, and I was thinking about having 50 balls, all containing pieces of paper that are numbered 1-50. Then, have the subjects in totally different, sound proof rooms, and I am in another sound proof room. Every few seconds, I would draw a ball and put it into something that keeps the balls in the same order, but no one can see it. I could have everyone guess which ball is first, second, third, but no one (including me) knows which ball is what. Then afterwards, we could compare the results.

 

I believe that's a double blind test... I think it would be better if we could get a robot to do it.

[dichotomy]

The only thing I have ever considered psychic are my own handful of pre-cognitive dreams (where everything in the dream occurs later in reality, deja vu). All seemed to be completely insignificant life events that lasted from approximately 3 to 10seconds. No drugs, no alcohol involved. They generally occurred about 1 to 3 weeks after the dream. I’m not sure that events like these can be objectively tested? I can't verify anyone elses experience of deja vu. So how can anyone verify mine?

 

cheers.

[iNow]

The only thing I have ever considered psychic are my own handful of pre-cognitive dreams (where everything in the dream occurs later in reality, deja vu). All seemed to be completely insignificant life events that lasted from approximately 3 to 10seconds. No drugs, no alcohol involved. They generally occurred about 1 to 3 weeks after the dream. I’m not sure that events like these can be objectively tested? I can't verify anyone elses experience of deja vu. So how can anyone verify mine?

 

I don't know how to verify it, nor how to objectively test, however, I too have had similar precog dreams. They are as you describe, lasting a short while (like 3 to 10 seconds), do not involve drugs or alcohol, and this sense of deja vu happens after the dream. You referenced 1 to 3 weeks after the dream, but mine are more like a year or two.

 

The feeling begins by a sense of recognition. One of the main issues is a gut feeling, but then there is something about my perspective and the angle in which I'm viewing the room and objects around me. The placement, the orientation... all of the cues perceived awaken this memory of the dream.

 

It's happened several times. In fact, it is exactly this phenomenon that interested me in studying the nature of time itself. If I can dream the future a year before it occurs, then it happens, then time is not what it seems. The only way I've been able to accept this weirdness is to hold on to the concept of a perpetual present... that it's always right now... but even that does little to explain how a dream can occur before the event is experienced consciously.

 

 

It's not deja vu, but a memory of a dream long since passed.

 

 

 

Some interesting studies available at the search results below:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=double+blind+telepathy

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=double+blind+clairvoyance

[dichotomy]

I don't know how to verify it, nor how to objectively test, however, I too have had similar precog dreams. They are as you describe, lasting a short while (like 3 to 10 seconds), do not involve drugs or alcohol, and this sense of deja vu happens after the dream. You referenced 1 to 3 weeks after the dream, but mine are more like a year or two.

 

The feeling begins by a sense of recognition. One of the main issues is a gut feeling, but then there is something about my perspective and the angle in which I'm viewing the room and objects around me. The placement, the orientation... all of the cues perceived awaken this memory of the dream.

 

It's happened several times. In fact, it is exactly this phenomenon that interested me in studying the nature of time itself. If I can dream the future a year before it occurs, then it happens, then time is not what it seems. The only way I've been able to accept this weirdness is to hold on to the concept of a perpetual present... that it's always right now... but even that does little to explain how a dream can occur before the event is experienced consciously.

 

 

It's not deja vu, but a memory of a dream long since passed.

 

 

 

Some interesting studies available at the search results below:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=double+blind+telepathy

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=double+blind+clairvoyance

 

Your description fits my experience of pre-cog dreams. I can't explain it at all. I just assume my unconscious knows things that the conscious doesn't. And merely trivial things too.

 

I'd describe it as a short sequence of reality that initially took place in a dream. It's relatively common. I remember in a secondary school psychology class that about a quarter, or more, of the class had experienced this phenomenon, this made me feel more assured that it was quite normal. My time frames of 1 to 3 weeks are pretty standard for me. I may have had some that trigger a year or more later, but I can't remember for certain any of those occasions.

 

One, "seeing the future" experience I had was in a drugged on magic mushrooms state. This one lasted about 8 seconds. I don't remember a pre-cog dream for this occasion. I only know that I could clearly detail before it happened, move for move, point of view, facial expression, exactly what a friend of mine was about to do. basically, I stood at the door entrance to our hotel room. He simply walked the full space of the room, spun around, walked up to me and shut the door in my face, and immediately opened it again, just for effect. Again, another completely meaningless pre-cognition like the rest of them. Except this time with a mind altering substance. Maybe this feature is not really for my full use, it may be evolving in me for future generations to use more skillfully?

[iNow]

You do well to desribe the recollection experiences of events as seemingly insignificant, but I wouldn't call them "meaningless." However, this isn't, by any means, a huge problem I have, just worthy of mention. I'd suggest the very fact that we have this experience, and, anecdotally, a relatively large percentage of others (my experience shows about 60-75% of respondants) report having similar experience makes it meaningful.

 

Physically, it may have something to do with quantum events, and/or the many-worlds hypothesis, however I find it distasteful when so much that we don't understand is attributed to this unecessarily. Too many people use quantum mechanics to "explain" things they don't understand, and that's silly since it's not really an explanation. So, I try to avoid this line of reasoning (at least until some more solid evidence can be found and/or tests run to validate).

 

The more scientific audience tends to describe the deja vu experience as a "cross-wiring" type event in the brain. They suggest that, for whatever reason, the experience you are having consciously causes actions in brain center associated with memory and the temporal region associated with feelings of "supernatural" and "universal oneness" and "god" and a general sense of well-being. Again, let's find a way to test this before we use it to explain something (let's validate it before we attribute the experience to it).

 

Here is a group doing some studies specifically on the deja vu experience:

 

 

http://reporter.leeds.ac.uk/513/s5.htm

A new collaboration launching this month [January 2006] with the University of York’s neuro-imaging lab will provide objective evidence to the subjective reports supplied by the CFF. “When examining someone’s subjective experience, it’s important to have an idea of whether their subjective account is comparable to other people’s,” said Dr Moulin. “The neuro-imaging facilities allow us to see if the same areas of brain are activated in different people when they report certain subjective states. Ultimately, we may even be able to pinpoint the neural areas important for conscious states such as remembering.”

 

Dr Moulin is keen to develop a network of patients in Leeds and across the globe who experience chronic déjà vu. “We’re finding people all over the world with these problems. Chronic déjà vu sufferers need the reassurance that they’re not alone, and we need them to help us learn more about who has it, what causes it, and why.”

 

The article discusses some potentially overactive circuit in the temporal lobe in conjunction with some hypothalamal areas which govern memory. It's interesting that the temporal lobe is also associated with time perception.

 

Interestingly also, when people have deep religious/spiritual/whatever experiences, and feel this connection to a greater being, it's generally a few very specific areas in the temporal lobe which are most active.

 

 

Didn't I just say that?

[Pre4edgc]

Yeah, I've had a couple of those experiences myself, except one was in writing. I wrote a paper in third grade about something, and it happened a couple of minutes afterwards! Kind of cool, but also scary. But anyway, this experiment I guess is more or less testing those who have controlled psychic powers (supposedly). It's to test those who think they know they have it, and think that they can make it happen at any time. Not just dreams...

[dichotomy]

The more scientific audience tends to describe the deja vu experience as a "cross-wiring" type event in the brain. They suggest that, for whatever reason, the experience you are having consciously causes actions in brain center associated with memory and the temporal region associated with feelings of "supernatural" and "universal oneness" and "god" and a general sense of well-being. Again, let's find a way to test this before we use it to explain something (let's validate it before we attribute the experience to it).

 

 

Well, I fully dream a future reality before witnessing it's replay in full detail. So, I'm not sure about the "cross-wiring" thing. Cross-wiring would make more sense if one had deja vu without a past dream. I've probably only experienced it 10 times at the most.

 

I do remember some occasions where I felt déjà vu coming on. I panicked and did my best to suppress the rest of what I knew would unfold. I could at times suppress it fully when the first few seconds occur. Possibly, I may only have 3 to 10 second déjà vu, and not minutes of it, because fear sets in, and thus suppression. The fear of totally seeing all things before they actually occur would be completely unbearable to someone like me, whom didn't grow up with a steady stream of pre-cognition from day 1.

 

I really can’t think of a good reason why it occurs with me. Particularly considering how mundane most pre-cognition is. If it was life or death it would be useful at least. I think I'll stick with the evolving consciousness for futre generations thing, that I probably won't get full use of. I speculate this because early man would have, at some point in time, had to deal with shocking flashes of consciousness. Before evolving the consciousness most of us know today.

 

Cheers.

[bombus]

I successfully predicted the outcome of coin flipping 27 times in a row once.

 

I simply stopped at #27, but I could have kept on going.

 

12 of the flips were done by myself. The remainder were done by one of the previous observers who said that I must have been cheating by having practiced coin flipping beforehand. The remainder of flips were done with me facing away from the newly appointed flipper.

 

Well, as a scientist I'd have to see the proof of that before I believed it! Mind you, I can crush double-decker buses using only the power of my mind:)