What is your child's life worth? Apparently $5000.

[Pangloss]

I've been following this "Kid Nation" controversy for a while now, trying to form an opinion. Or rather trying to find a reason not to believe that the end of western civilization has arrived. As you may know, CBS put together this thing as a reality show featuring children who were basically at a run-amok summer camp without adult supervision. A kind of real-life Lord of the Flies scenario. For money -- a $5,000 stipend, with a chance to win more. Children as young as EIGHT were allowed to participate.

 

And the parents willingly signed their children up for this. The same sort of parents who would probably bring a lawsuit if the nearby public school were to serve ground beef on its day of expiration willingly signed contracts guaranteeing their children a chance to compete in a contractually-stated "dangerous environment" where the child might actually DIE.

 

What the heck were these parents thinking?

 

Interesting blog feature on this:

 

http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2007/09/how-cbs-should-.html

[Aeternus]

What the heck were these parents thinking?

 

This will teach the little *beep*s ?

[Reaper]

The American dumbass never ceases to amaze me (I mean the general public, not the kids).

 

I wonder how they were able to get away with this...

[Sisyphus]

When I heard about this, my first thought was that it can't possibly really match the hype, because not even network executive could be that dumb (at least as far as inviting lawsuits is concerned). When I heard they were trying to screen an episode to "put concerned parties' fears to rest," I figured I was right, and it will be less like lord of the flies and more like a sadistic babysitter.

[iNow]

What the heck were these parents thinking?

I'd suggest, "Thank God somebody is willing to take this crazy monkey child of mine out of my hair for a few days without me needing to pay THEM. Pour me another glass of wine and put in a movie that's not a cartoon I've seen 63 times."

 

 

I used to teach kung fu to kids in summer camp. Despite the fact that they loved them very much, most parents couldn't wait for the brief break we offered them from their children...

 

 

 

That, or it's like the Lohan parents, and they think their kids are going to help THEM get rich.

[ParanoiA]

According to the document posted on TheSmokingGun.com, the parents were told, via the contract they signed, that the show was "inherently dangerous" and could expose their children to "uncontrolled hazards and conditions that may cause serious bodily injury, illness or death." The parents had to relinquish all legal claims on CBS if anything did happen to their children. Oh, and unless the families stick to the terms of a confidentiality agreement that the network is still enforcing, they could be liable for a $5 million penalty.

 

This is sick. I know many of you don't believe in the whole liberal media thing, but I do and when I see this it turns my stomach to see the hypocrisy of CBS. Their leftist news station pummels conservatism as heartless and flagrantly promoting the rich at the expense of the poor - while their network blatantly trumps any conservative in this country by directly screwing these families - putting children in danger at a pay barely over minimum wage, in a dangerous environment that may even cause death - just for corporate profit - and on top of all that, these greedy rich bastards won't even allow them the decency of a fair trial if they hurt their kids.

 

Despicable corporate crap. I'd like to see CBS news do a story on their own network - the ole "investigative journalism" technique. I'd like to see them stuff a microphone in the CEO's face on his way to his car... "Sir, would you care to comment on the child labor / endangerment show you're promoting?"

 

"Could you also comment on the ridiculous low wage your paying these children in return for your potential millions of dollars in profit?"

 

"How about the snakey contracts you made these people sign so that if you kill or maime their children, you won't have to pay for it?"

 

Or rather trying to find a reason not to believe that the end of western civilization has arrived.

 

Good luck with that. The fact GWB and Clinton both got second terms ought to solve that riddle...

[John Cuthber]

When I was a kid I used to climb trees, swim in the canal and ride a bike on main roads. Any of these could have led to my death (or to serious injury). Is CBS simply accepting that kids playing are sometimes exposed to danger and that they don't want to face an essentially unlimited lawsuit?

 

Having said that, the whole idea seems wrong to me. It looks exploitative at best and I don't think children are born to be "used" in this sort of way. To me that seems to be a bigger problem than a contract that probably wouldn't be enforceable.

[Pangloss]

Some amusing and interesting replies in this thread. I'd say that's one good reason right there to think that western civilization may still be alive and kicking.

 

Just to expand this a bit, I think some people have responded to this on a level of "well it's no more danger than they face at summer camp". A medical team was standing by, for example, and some of these parents might not have seen a distinction.

 

But I think it's very revealing to look at the difference between this and summer camp. Summer camp isn't just supervised, it's organized, adult-lead activity. This Kid Nation thing wasn't even supervised -- the adults were under specific orders to do nothing unless someone actually got hurt.

 

Put another way, would you send your kid to a summer camp that told you it was going to stand there and watch while your child poured a bottle of bleach down its throat, and only THEN do something about it?

[padren]

Unless I am mistaken, it really doesn't matter what CBS has parents sign, other than civil damages...any child getting harmed becomes a criminal law matter (city, state, etc) and parents would be charged as being complicit in the crime.

 

When a parent places a child in the care of others where there is an assumption of reasonable saftey measures and those people place the child in danger... those people are prosecutable - but when parents knowingly place their child in a dangerous situation they become prosecutable too.

 

For any parent to sign off on a contract that includes "uncontrolled hazards and conditions that may cause serious bodily injury, illness or death."[\i] that takes their kids out of their own control should be open for neglect charges in my opinion. They may have as well included "risk of sodomy" in that contract, which I am sure more parents would have reacted to than the "death" part.

 

 

But what the real question is in terms of CBS, is since they are in control of the environment, how "uncontrolled" was it? Based on the injuries mentioned in that blog, I can't be too optimistic about the safety precautions they implemented...but I suspect more details will arise over time.

[Guest026]

I would join if my mom would let me (she wouldn't by the way). I hate parents that sue schools for stuff like the expiration thing mentioned earlier. Did you know that in some schools students just walk up to their teacher and hug them then tell their parents to get the teacher fired?

[iNow]

I would join if my mom would let me (she wouldn't by the way). I hate parents that sue schools for stuff like the expiration thing mentioned earlier. Did you know that in some schools students just walk up to their teacher and hug them then tell their parents to get the teacher fired?

 

I seriously think that you are, in the flesh, a prime example of Erik Erikson's work. [/AsPositiveAsPossible]

[John Cuthber]

Guess what, my dear parents were not generally watching when I was falling out of trees etc. Not because they didn't care but precisely because they did. Surely I'm not the only one who deliberately waited till there were no grown-ups about to tell me not to before doing something dumb.

 

If CBS were being deliberately negligent of the duty of care they would be prosecuted (and possibly sued too) in spite of the "disclaimer".

The disclaimer can only cover events that are not the result of CBS's actions.

The kids may well hurt themselves. If that happens then a court will see if CBS were negligent. It may be that the court finds that the misfortune that befalls some child is an accident and that CBS are not criminally liable through negligence. The disclaimer will stop any civil claim at that point. I think that's all it can do.

 

The problem isn't that CBS's lawyers insist on a disclaimer. The problem is that anyone thinks this is anything other than child abuse.

[Mr Skeptic]

I'd sign myself up for this. Get $5000.00 for doing whatever the hell I please? It's not like this would be much more dangerous than regular life. Then again, I'm not a kid.

[ecoli]

I'd sign myself up for this. Get $5000.00 for doing whatever the hell I please? It's not like this would be much more dangerous than regular life. Then again, I'm not a kid.

 

I've watched a couple of episodes of the show... It's not bad at all. Basically they put these kids in a wild west sort of town, and they separate the kids into groups. Each group of kids compete in a coopertivity game and the winners of the game have a higher position in the society of the town.

The winners get better jobs with more pay.

 

It actually is an interesting way to teach kids about economics, work ethic, social interactions and even politics - there are election and town council leaders, etc.

 

I was afraid they were going to exploit these kids... but they're actually doing a pretty good job.