Health issue-Addiction

[rey]

My father is an addicted person. He lives only for his alcohol; he doesn’t have any goal in his life apart from drinking. Mum is worried for him coz sometimes he becomes violent when he drinks a lot. He refused bluntly to go to a counselor or even to take medication to be alcohol-free. He says that he is living a good life with his bottle. But me and my mother, we are able to do anything to make dad quit alcohol. I’ve heard of a medication called campral which I used in the treatment of alcoholism along with counseling. Dad will not be ready to go to a counselor. Do you think the medication will be effective if we put it in his food?? Can campral be taken in food?? Can anyone give me some advice please??

[PhDP]

If you trust wikipedia's article on Acamprosate (and the article seems to be well-sourced), then it's not a good idea. This drug is good for "maintaining abstinence", it looks like it's not a cure for alcoolism. They even quote a study showing that "[...] acamprosate only works with a combination of attending support groups and abstinence from alcohol."

 

I understand that your situation is difficult, but I doupt you can cure your father's alcoholism if he doesn't want to be cured.

[YT2095]

you could also try phoning the AA (al anon) they also do meetings for Family members that live with an alcoholic, you may get some good advice there too.

[ParanoiA]

Intervention. Do whatever it takes to make him stop or do nothing at all. He's going to die early. Could be much early, or just a little early, but he's killing himself.

 

If it was my dad, I would consider the value in quiting and let that determine my course of action. If he's 60 years old, been drinking all his life, then I probably wouldn't bother, it's rather pointless in that case.

 

However, if he's in his 30's with a family to support, I would do whatever it takes. I would start with intervention and end with absolute force if necessary. It's their life we're talking about, and the lives of his offspring that are raised and effected by him - all of them are at stake. If I have to kick his ass and drag him down to the basement and feed him bread and water for a couple months, followed by spying and stalking to be sure he stays clean - I'll do it. I don't give a crap how legal any of it is, family trumps all.

[iNow]

Do you think the medication will be effective if we put it in his food?? Can campral be taken in food?? Can anyone give me some advice please??

 

Unfortunately, if you put it in his food, he won't be doing it for himself and any change won't last long. The issue you have is more than his drinking. It is his approach to life, and his current priorities. Now, alcohol addiction trumps many things, but ultimately your dad has to be convinced that he "wants" to and is "willing" to change. You can try to help accelerate this in any creative way you conceive, but until that happens, your personal best course of action is patience and acceptance. Best of luck rey, to you and all those you love.

[ParanoiA]

Now, alcohol addiction trumps many things, but ultimately your dad has to be convinced that he "wants" to and is "willing" to change. You can try to help accelerate this in any creative way you conceive, but until that happens, your personal best course of action is patience and acceptance.

 

I don't know. I completely agree with the fact he's going to have to really want to change, or else it will never stick. They'll fall of the wagon over and over again, and sometimes this is worse than all out abandonment because it wears on peoples hopes and disappointments.

 

But I don't know about patience and acceptance. Maybe I've just dealt with too many alcoholics, I will admit a pessimistic bias toward them. I've known one that quit and stays sober, and I know countless that quit over and over again and never stay sober for any respectable length of time. They usually stay sober enough to get things going positively again, then drop the ball with a binge and ruin it all.

[iNow]

Point taken. Perhaps patience, persistence, and consistency of love and support would have been a better suggestion.

 

 

When I made the comment about acceptance, it was more to indicate that we can try helping others, but ultimately the movement toward change is the responsibility of the individual. If that individual doesn't change, despite consistent support and love from those around them, then all that's left is to accept it and try to move on for ourselves (as hard as that may be).

[ParanoiA]

Very true, words of wisdom. Point taken.

[DrDNA]

I don't think that you should be putting anything like that in his food. I come from a long line of alcoholics (all dead at early ages) and my father was a violent drunk. My mother even put Antabuse (combined with alcohol, it makes you violently ill) in my father's vodka bottles. This made him very, very sick, and angry, but he continued to drink anyway. Sadly, there is not much you can do except continue to love him and don't give up on him, no matter how difficult it may seem or how embarassed you get. Believe me, if you do give up, you will regret it at some point. The one thing all substance abusers have in common is denial and as long as they are in denial, they will refuse to come to terms with the effect the substance is having on their lives and the lives of their loved ones. The one thing that children of alcoholics share is shame. My advise is for you and your mother to get counseling...do it quickly, do it often, do it seriously.

[pioneer]

Another thing to consider is that one person's standard of over drinking may not apply to another person. There are people who are tipsy after a half of drink. If someone close, drank two drinks per day, they might consider that overdrinking, since they will extrapolate their own limitation. Among people, who drink a six pack of beer, that is a light weight.

 

In the current social climate, where zero is the ideal, anything more than zero per day is a problem. This standard can create the very problem you are trying to solve. It hits upon the oldst lesson in human history, prohibition creates temptation. Or social self righteousness leads to social addictions. Culture picks and choses who we are going to make the addicts. It also picks addictive behavior to be called socially acceptable.

 

For example, say culture wanted to institute the cell phone addiction. Anthing more that 10 minutes per day is considered an addict. Those who see nothing wrong, will have to go underground, to avoid all the social nags that will haunt them day and night. When they catch you in the basement, texting a friend, you look like a junky. If you try to defend yourself, because this prohibition is stupid, you are in denial. If we reinforce that cell-junky label enough, many will begin to feel like a cell-junky since they show all the symptoms .One is only doing something that is nobody's business. It is totally silly and should never have been, but once instituted, it creates its own self forfilling realty, until cell-phone anomonous is needed. They may even come up with a drug or patch, which can help overcome the addiction.

 

Relative to your situation, a grown man with his wife and child teaming up, to make him feel like he is a social deviate, will make him drink. Both of you might try saying, "we both need to give up something we really like, and we need you to nag at us so you can overcome". This will empower him into a role where he feels like the family leader. It takes the pressure off him and turns it around back onto you. With him nagging at you, it will make it harder to give up your joys of life, making you an addict. It will put you, on the other side, until an understanding forms. It is easier to be a social nag, than be the victim of one, two or thousands.

[DrDNA]

Another thing to consider is that one person's standard of over drinking may not apply to another person. There are people who are tipsy after a half of drink. If someone close, drank two drinks per day, they might consider that overdrinking, since they will extrapolate their own limitation. Among people, who drink a six pack of beer, that is a light weight.

 

In the current social climate, where zero is the ideal, anything more than zero per day is a problem. This standard can create the very problem you are trying to solve. It hits upon the oldst lesson in human history, prohibition creates temptation. Or social self righteousness leads to social addictions. Culture picks and choses who we are going to make the addicts. It also picks addictive behavior to be called socially acceptable.

 

For example, say culture wanted to institute the cell phone addiction. Anthing more that 10 minutes per day is considered an addict. Those who see nothing wrong, will have to go underground, to avoid all the social nags that will haunt them day and night. When they catch you in the basement, texting a friend, you look like a junky. If you try to defend yourself, because this prohibition is stupid, you are in denial. If we reinforce that cell-junky label enough, many will begin to feel like a cell-junky since they show all the symptoms .One is only doing something that is nobody's business. It is totally silly and should never have been, but once instituted, it creates its own self forfilling realty, until cell-phone anomonous is needed. They may even come up with a drug or patch, which can help overcome the addiction.

 

Relative to your situation, a grown man with his wife and child teaming up, to make him feel like he is a social deviate, will make him drink. Both of you might try saying, "we both need to give up something we really like, and we need you to nag at us so you can overcome". This will empower him into a role where he feels like the family leader. It takes the pressure off him and turns it around back onto you. With him nagging at you, it will make it harder to give up your joys of life, making you an addict. It will put you, on the other side, until an understanding forms. It is easier to be a social nag, than be the victim of one, two or thousands.

 

That is total garbage!!

Anyone that equates alcoholism with cell phone usage, obviously has no concept of what alcoholism does to the person, their immediate family, other loved ones, and anyone in close proximity.

Nobody is talking about one or two beers here. ARGGGHHH!!!

Alcoholism (and other forms of chemical dependancy) devistated my father's life, my mother's life, my brothers' lives and my life, and everyone around us and continues to do the same for millions of others. For you to compare what rey is bravely dealing with here to cell phone usage or to a beer or two is TOTALLY ABSURD!

What are you? A self percieved expert!?!!

Get a grip!!

[ParanoiA]

Actually, I thought Pioneer's post made some excellent points. One person's idea of addiction is another person's "vice". Society makes that call, and those who do not live up to it are "addicts" and look pathetic - even though society may be completely out of whack. I could point to marijuana on that one.

 

I can't tell you how much we laughed at so called "experts" telling us how dangerous it is and how people "lose their minds" and etc. This has been fed to society for generations and now, everyone I know who hasn't smoked dope recites this drivel. Everyone I know who has, seems to have a more reasonable grip on the true dangers and benefits.

 

That said, I have to agree that alcoholism has clear lines of distinction. Maybe it's like that judge said about porn versus art, I may not be able to clearly define what is dangerous addiction and what is vice, but I know it when I see it.

[DrDNA]

OK.

Lets I'll agree that when somebody passes out and has to have their toes removed due to frost bite because they are addicted to talking on a cell phone, then it is has become worthy of consideration on the same level as alcoholism, meth addiction, opiate addiciton, etc. Casual maijuana use, much like the casual beer or two (or 6 even), are not in the same universe either.

 

Am I correct in assuming that you do not have first hand (maybe second hand would be a more appropriate term) experience with alcoholism or other forms of chemical dependancy in your family?

I don't mean to critisize (and apologize that I have), but, I'm amazed and dumbfounded because I guess I never realized how people with no direct experience with addiction in their immediate families just don't get it. Maybe this is why my wife can watch "Intervention" on A and E network every Friday and I would rather stick pins in my eyes. The show is just too real, personal, and painful for me.

[ParanoiA]

Yeah, I don't want to appear insensitive, but I've dealt with a ton of alcoholics and meth addicts. I get what you're saying. It's just I also get what pioneer is saying.

[DrDNA]

DSM-IV Definition of Addiction

A maladaptive pattern of substance use, leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by three (or more) of the following, occurring at any time in the same 12-month period: (1) Tolerance, as defined by either of the following: a. A need for markedly increased amounts of the substance to achieve intoxication or desired effect. b. Markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of the substance.

(2) Withdrawal, as manifested by either of the following: a. The

characteristic withdrawal syndrome for the substance b. The same

(or a closely related) substance is taken to relieve or avoid withdrawal

symptoms. (3) The substance is often taken in larger amounts or over

a longer period than was intended (loss of control).(4) There is a

persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control

substance use (loss of control). (5) A great deal of time is spent

in activities necessary to obtain the substance, use the substance,

or recover from its effects (preoccupation). (6) Important social,

occupational, or recreational activities are given up or reduced

because of substance use (continuation despite adverse

consequences). (7) The substance use is continued despite

knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or

psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or

exacerbated by the substance (adverse consequences).

 

rey,

If you want to discuss this offline, just let me know.

Again, I suggest some hard nosed, straight talking, no bull counseling for you and your mother. It really helped me a LOT (even though it was 25 years after my father passed). However, Adult Children of Alcoholics was, in my experience, a bunch of blaming and anger that wasn't adressed by the participants nor the moderators....but that was my personal experience, I know that others have had good experiences with them.

Again, just give me a shout if you want to spill your guts man.

Peace.

[pioneer]

The point I was trying to make was, social pressure for conformity to a arbitrary standard adds extra pressure onto those who drink. This can make the problem worse. In cultures where drinking is a normal part of life, i.e., wine, there is not the same social problem, compared to cultures who try so hard to help the poor addicts solve their problem. In these tolerant countries they drink the same amount but are not babied. The result is empowerment and less conditioned self pity requiring drinking.

 

I only used the cell phone example to show the cultural anatomy of addiction. I don't see this as a problem, but if culture decided to make this a problem, it could create a new group of addicts they can baby. Once you convince people of a new problem many feel the weight of a problem. I realize the goal, is to apply pressure, so not drinking, is the lessor of the two evils. This works for some but others become addicts. This is a way to avoid becoming another herd animal and retain individuality.

 

Shopping can be an addiction that can impact the entire family due to the financial strain and all the stress this can cause. This is the other side of addiction, which is created by culture via mass marketing. One creates a social conditioning that makes some behavior extra satisfying.

 

Alcoholism has both the push of the free market and the pull dynamics created by instituted addiction. This makes this particular addiction tough to deal with, due to the double reinforcement. Think of it this way, if you are an alcoholic you should be ashamed according to culture. On the other hand, drinking the new Barcardi Silver can allow you to have fun. To get rid of the shame you are suppose to feel about drinking, one now needs to drink so you can have some fun and avoid becoming a sheep; baaaaa.

 

If we go back to the cell phone, the marketing is trying to cell product. They need to make everyone think is this some much fun. There is also status having the latest gadget, which also makes one feel special. As long as we don't decide to help by defining a new social addiction, all the kids are having conditioned fun. Once defined ,then we have addicts.

 

Nagging is a type of behavior that can get quite addicting. This is a type of emotional and psychological abuse that impacts other people. If there is a place to institute a new addiction, let us pick on the nags. We can drive them underground, so they can all only nag at each other. At least a group of drunks can find friendship, but a group nags would get on each others nerves. They would have to separate until there is noone to nag. This addictive behavior would cure itself, so they can return to normal.

[iNow]

So, Pioneer, if I were to summarize your position in this thread, and paraphrase for clarity:

 

"I don't care at all about the request for ideas and thoughts expressed by the OP, I think people who worry about alcoholism are nagging sheep and I'm going to disrespect them by inserting into this discussion my skewed views which have nothing to do with the question which was asked."

 

Sound about right?