Code of Ethics for Scientists...

[YT2095]

has been proposed: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6990482.stm

 

 

I`ll see if I can find out what these 7 points are, but at face value it seems like a great idea.

 

this is an interesting transcript also: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmselect/cmsctech/uc747-i/uc74702.htm

[Aeternus]

I haven't seen anything happening that forces a need for this sort of thing...

 

While certainly scientists should consider the ethical implications of their work, I think some set of rules apparently made to make the general public happy is destined for disaster.

[YT2095]

a little Further info I can give, is that the 7 principals will come under the headings of:

 

Rigor

Respect

Responsibility

[Klaynos]

Given that this implies it'd be a voluntary code anyway, I do not see that this would work any better/worst than the current ethics committees...

[YT2095]

fair enough, but as far as I`m aware the Hypocratic Oath is voluntary also, which Doctor would You go to or trust, one that swore the Oath or one that didn`t?

[gcol]

Wow, enlightening... Did not know that scientists were ethical. No, er, rephrase that, a bit too personal perhaps... How about:

 

"If science is the pursuit of truth then science cannot be ethical, for ethics places barriers in the path of truth. Ethics are a merely a construct of anthropological vanity and are as subjective as morality".

 

Oh, I get it, Green scientists rule, O.K.?

[YT2095]

WOW (back at ya!) the guy hasn`t even presented the 7 principals yet, and there`s garbage being spouted off about it already!

 

why don`t you Wait until the details are Given before posting such tripe?

[gcol]

You said:

but at face value it seems like a great idea.

 

I said, in effect, that at face value it seems like a dumb and unscientific idea. So back at you with the garbage jibe.

[YT2095]

 

I said, in effect, that at face value it seems like a dumb and unscientific idea. So back at you with the garbage jibe.

 

erm.... Nope, I can`t see where you implied that at all???

I can see where I said it.

 

seems you were too distracted being Silly rather than making a Cogent point.

[swansont]

Scientists alread have one — Don't falsify your results

 

Much beyond that it's politics, not science. Case in point:

 

"It would be aimed at encouraging researchers to reflect on the impact their work would have on society, he said."

 

The problem is that in basic research, you can't know where the results will take you, or what you will discover. And you run into the problem of not investigating things because of social pressures, and social pressures often have little to do with facts. (impact on society does not necessarily mean that you're looking to discover or develop something dangerous. Government fund that sort of research all the time)

 

"The seven principles have already been adopted within government and Sir David hopes to extend that to other places of research around the world. "

 

Sounds like it's a CYA on the part of government to distance themselves from research that voters might find objectionable, but it's hard to tell for sure, since the story is almost content-free.

[gcol]

1. Had you wanted other than a face value discussion, perhaps you should have waited until the 7 points were published in full.

 

You posted in politics, which is heavy on opinion and light on rigorous evidence. For any political statement you should be prepared for a vgorous counterblast.

 

Dumb, garbage, and tripe are surely inappropriate words.

 

I have read the transcript. Much future ammunition in there. Did you see the bits where he likened the seven points to the ten commandments and seemed to dismiss the relevance of the hypocratic oath?

 

Swansont's post just beat mine. I agree with him. Do dumb, garbage and tripe apply to him also?

[john5746]

Yeah, in the US, we would have scientists working on new biological weapons, but no cloning for ethical reasons.

[YT2095]

yes I agree, that Part of it is somewhat akin to the "hearts and minds" winning philosophy.

but there WAS a time when Science and Being a Scientist was a Very Respected position in a community.

now we`re something to Fear or distrust.

largely I expect as result of making Corporate many facilities and the Media.

 

I also see that Any effort spent reasserting that position well spent.

 

 

Swansont's post just beat mine. I agree with him. Do dumb, garbage and tripe apply to him also?

yes if he` come out with the same nonsensical drivel that you tend to do of late.

[ParanoiA]

Yeah, I echo john's sentiment. I realize the 7 principals aren't known yet, so I'll just say that I'm concerned about how this will effect such things as cloning. A fair amount of suspicion is healthy in this case, I think. These are the kinds of things that can be used to disguise an agenda.

[CharonY]

Here they are:

- Act with skill and care, keep skills up to date

- Prevent corrupt practice and declare conflicts of interest

- Respect and acknowledge the work of other scientists

- Ensure that research is justified and lawful

- Minimise impacts on people, animals and the environment

-Discuss issues science raises for society

-Do not mislead; present evidence honestly

 

 

Most successful Profs are disqualified for the first point, though

[insane_alien]

- Minimise impacts on people, animals and the environment

 

this basically rules out medical research as new drugs can vastly improve chances of surviving a disease. quite an impact wouldn't you say.

[YT2095]

Nice Find, where did you get it?

[gcol]

-

Ensure that research is justified and lawful

 

A lot of weapons research scientists out of work, especially when obeyed together with:

 

Minimise impacts on people, animals and the environment

 

Scientists will obey, of course, as Christians obey the ten commandments.

[swansont]

this basically rules out medical research as new drugs can vastly improve chances of surviving a disease. quite an impact wouldn't you say.

 

Minimize doesn't mean eliminate, though.

[gcol]

Found here, YT's original updated

 

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=seven+scientific+ethics&meta=

[YT2095]

and here too: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6990868.stm

thnx Gcol

 

Now we can discuss the implications freely...

[Pangloss]

I think Tom Lehrer said it best:

 

Plagiarize' date='

Let no one else's work evade your eyes,

Remember why the good Lord made your eyes,

So don't shade your eyes,

But plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize...

Only be sure always to call it please, "research".

[/quote']

[Dak]

isn't 'science' pan-national?

 

i.e., it's not britain's to regulate and dictate a code to?

[gcol]

There seems to be a measure of international support, and if it is so reasonable and enlightened, surely even the U.S. would sign up and ratify, as they did with Kyoto? (not).

[YT2095]

isn't 'science' pan-national?

 

i.e., it's not britain's to regulate and dictate a code to?

 

non sequitur.

 

the Nobel Prize is for residents of Stockholm?

the Geneva Convention only valid in Geneva?