stupid in america

[Blade]

in responce to the miss teen carolina comedy thread. Now seriously. what would the real answer be?

 

this movie is about a monopoly and a strong union that's the blame

20/20 Stupid in America

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfRUMmTs0ZA

 

in this stand up comedy big company's are the blam that want's to keep their workers stupid so they don't know any better.

George Carlin: education and the owners of America

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccYoVnBc_fk

 

or are they both right.

 

nobody knows or has an opinion? i find that hard to belive. don't be scared.

[john5746]

Carlin is funny, but he is wrong of course. The stupid in America brings up some very good points. I think the competition thing might work better in urban areas, where multiple schools can be accessed within a short distance.

 

Also, if students had to compete to get into the better public schools, that would make them better schools as well. Maybe parents would pay attention more and make sure their kids are well behaved. Maybe no limit due to gpa, but to disciplinary problems, etc. That is a big reason private schools do better - they tend to attract and retain the students who are there to learn.

 

Of course, rewarding superior teachers and eliminating lousy ones makes sense. If teaching is the most important aspect of education, then the teachers need to compete amongst each other.

[ParanoiA]

Yeah, I love Carlin - grew up on his material. But he's wrong. You shouldn't compare the two vids because it isn't fair to Carlin. Carlin is largely emotional and pissed off about capitalism for the most part. There's no facts or figures - just the same ole whining about the rich controling everything.

 

Blends right in with the Iraq war for Haliburton, Cheyney runs the country and GWB took the towers down...it's all those rich bastards! Class envy never runs out of gas.

 

The Stupid in America vid has facts and figures and attempts to make logical arguments based on them. And none of it makes me laugh....at all.

[Blade]

don't write Carlin off too fast. he is right about who owns the amerika media.

Rupert Murdoch.

 

and do company owners want critical thinkers? not in america they don't.

 

and the dissapearing of the middle class is also evidence that big bussnes is winning over education. normal people go on strike before they work 3 jobs and still can't pay the bills.

 

look at frence.

[ParanoiA]

don't write Carlin off too fast. he is right about who owns the amerika media.

Rupert Murdoch.

 

No he's not. CNN, MSNBC, Fox, ABC and etc - all corporate businesses that do News for money. That's their businesses. Rupert Murdoch is just ONE of them.

 

and do company owners want critical thinkers? not in america they don't.

 

Depends on what the job is. At a call center filled with minimum wage workers - they don't give a rat's ass about your critical thinking skills. As a manager, they do. Critical thinking is not encouraged until college, that's a problem. 18 year olds are out there voting for idiots because they critically think anything through - they just go by their favorite bands, artists or comedians.

 

and the dissapearing of the middle class is also evidence that big bussnes is winning over education. normal people go on strike before they work 3 jobs and still can't pay the bills.

 

look at frence.

 

The middle class is disappearing because we print more money, which dilutes the value of the dollar - and that's government that does that. Also, we send jobs overseas and don't manufacture things as much anymore. There's lots more, but no, it's not the "evil rich" out to get you and your family.

[Blade]

The middle class is disappearing because we print more money, which dilutes the value of the dollar - and that's government that does that. Also, we send jobs overseas and don't manufacture things as much anymore. There's lots more, but no, it's not the "evil rich" out to get you and your family.

 

then the wages should change accordingly. inflation/deflation. people are not supposed to work 3 jobs to pay fore primary life needs. what happend to socialism? are the rich people telling the poor to fear socialism or something?

[ParanoiA]

then the wages should change accordingly. inflation/deflation. people are not supposed to work 3 jobs to pay fore primary life needs. what happend to socialism? are the rich people telling the poor to fear socialism or something?

 

No one is working 3 jobs to pay bills unless they're paying for things they still don't have or have ridiculously unusual circumstances. I supported my wife and raised two children on 7 to 9 dollars an hour while going to college part-time for 7 years - she didn't work, she was a housewife. Just two minimum wage jobs would have been more per hour than that wage. I went from 7 to 9 over the course of 2 years, then quit because I refused to accept be passed over for promotion. Then, I worked in a door shop - another crappy ass job - for several more years before finally getting hired on by the phone company.

 

It didn't take me 3 jobs. It took me one job and disciplined living - common sense, living within our means. We had to keep driving our clunker while everyone else was buying new cars at 15% interest on 10 year notes. We stuck it out with our crappy 19" TV while everyone else was financing big screen TV's with a second mortgage.

 

I don't know where you're hearing this crap, but you are a classic example of conditioning. Where's the critical thinking you were talking about last post? Don't fall for the class envy mind trip - it's easy to externalize your problems onto other people, but it's not correct. It's a lie. The rich people don't make you poor. You make you poor.

[Blade]

No one is working 3 jobs to pay bills unless they're paying for things they still don't have or have ridiculously unusual circumstances. I supported my wife and raised two children on 7 to 9 dollars an hour while going to college part-time for 7 years - she didn't work, she was a housewife. Just two minimum wage jobs would have been more per hour than that wage. I went from 7 to 9 over the course of 2 years, then quit because I refused to accept be passed over for promotion. Then, I worked in a door shop - another crappy ass job - for several more years before finally getting hired on by the phone company.

 

It didn't take me 3 jobs. It took me one job and disciplined living - common sense, living within our means. We had to keep driving our clunker while everyone else was buying new cars at 15% interest on 10 year notes. We stuck it out with our crappy 19" TV while everyone else was financing big screen TV's with a second mortgage.

 

I don't know where you're hearing this crap, but you are a classic example of conditioning. Where's the critical thinking you were talking about last post? Don't fall for the class envy mind trip - it's easy to externalize your problems onto other people, but it's not correct. It's a lie. The rich people don't make you poor. You make you poor.

 

let's see how a bout bush as a source fore the 3 jobs.

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=84123

 

and fore critical thinking?

what about working hours

http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/workhours.html

and health

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7184214/site/newsweek/

people should not put up with it. that's logic.

 

I can not grasp the ruthless enslavement the american people are undergoing by big company's. personally as an democrat socialist old school style (means dividing wealth equally and government taking care fore it's people who are not born in to wealth.) i would not put up with it at all.

[john5746]

then the wages should change accordingly. inflation/deflation. people are not supposed to work 3 jobs to pay fore primary life needs. what happend to socialism? are the rich people telling the poor to fear socialism or something?

 

No, we are about to take a step in that direction when we vote in the democrats this next election. A price to pay for getting out of Iraq. Americans(not just the rich) are selling themselves to the world. We are exporting resources, importing goods and buying stocks in corporations that maximize profit by going overseas. Our youth think they can drop out of school and live like a rap star.

 

No one is evil or guilty in this deal. Its just business, no need to take it personally

[bascule]

The entire argument behind this program is based around a composition fallacy (these schools have a problem, therefore your child's school has a problem). Differences in test scores can be explained by a number of factors, including America's ecumentical approach to education and different testing practices.

 

Can you find a source that isn't a muckraking jackass with less than stellar journalistic credentials?

[Blade]

The entire argument behind this program is based around a composition fallacy (these schools have a problem, therefore your child's school has a problem). Differences in test scores can be explained by a number of factors, including America's ecumentical approach to education and different testing practices.

 

Can you find a source that isn't a muckraking jackass with less than stellar journalistic credentials?

 

Proof that 20/20 is wrong.

[ParanoiA]

let's see how a bout bush as a source fore the 3 jobs.

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...i?ArtNum=84123

 

If that's a source' date=' then I'll put together a source for you today that will prove all of my arguments correct...

 

and fore critical thinking?

what about working hours

http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/workhours.html

 

Oh I love this. Yes, we work more hours BECAUSE WE ARE LAZY. Have you seen a union worker in america? I wish you could see the jack offs I work with everyday that make 30 bucks an hour to do less work than a McDonald's fry cook. And these people are still bitching. Stuffing their faces with chips, and candy bars and washing them down with 30 different flavors of soda and sugar water crying about how the company is screwing them.

 

Blows my mnd. They do an hour's worth of work in 8 hours and the company is screwing them? Blade, get real. American workers cannot compete. There are many reasons that are out of their hands - like standard of living and so forth. But there are many reasons well within their grasp, but like you, they'd rather screw the rich and pretend it's the other way around. Class envy...proven wedge between logic and emotion.

 

I can not grasp the ruthless enslavement the american people are undergoing by big company's.

 

That's because there isn't any. You'll find like minded crybaby's and losers that blame all their problems on everything but themselves. But you won't find any enslavement. Oh, they'll carry on and whine as if they were, because some people don't think you should have to do something in order to survive and any government that forces you to do something to feed yourself, cloth yourself, provide shelter for yourself or etc is cruel and "enslavement". It's an insult.

 

The entire argument behind this program is based around a composition fallacy (these schools have a problem' date=' therefore your child's school has a problem). Differences in test scores can be explained by a number of factors, including America's ecumentical approach to education and different testing practices.

 

Can you find a source that isn't a muckraking jackass with less than stellar journalistic credentials?[/quote']

 

You mean for the whole video you just steamed and stewed how to discredit it? Why? I would never imply it's a thorough study of the situation, but it was a fair enough piece. Good enough that there are plenty of points that I have heard no one counter. How can you seriously defend pumping more and more money into something with no relative result whatsoever?

 

I'm in Kansas City. I know exactly what they're talking about with that 2 billion dollar dump and all the promises and smiley, happy shiny shoe assholes that got their hands on it. What did we get? Lower scores. No improvement AT ALL. Nothing.

 

Now they want another 1.2 billion. And they're just as pathetic looking as they were the first time - little salesmen running around begging for money to spend on their failed experiment. Why can't I get my son educated? Why do I have to pay for this crap?

 

They all act like "we're not a daycare" and pretend as if my 8 to 5 job isn't common. Who's covering before and after care? Ask the poor and low middle class people. Ask me since I had to blow an extra hundred or so each WEEK, not a month, each WEEK - that freaking hurt, we needed that money. We were forced to spend it on a measly 2 hours or so of care each day - because we could not let the kids walk home, it was too far. They can be home alone, but they couldn't walk home alone.

 

But state schools don't have to compete - with anyone. And surprise! They don't give a rat's ass about the predicament working parent's are in when juggling before school care, getting to school, and then after school care. They don't have to. We keep coming anyway. Must be nice...

 

However, the private schools I called in my area - all of them - have before and after care. No doubt it's figured into the price, and good for them. Works out for both of us. Oh wait...no it doesn't...my money is forcibly being taken to pay for state school - whether I send my son or not. They don't care if his education is worth a crap or not, they just want my money. So I can't afford anything else.

[Pangloss]

Proof that 20/20 is wrong.

 

(chuckle) It's also proof that many people on the left are wrong. You do realize that it's not just conservatives who are complaining about the quality of American education, don't you?

[ParanoiA]

Had to share this. Supposedly it's the actual recording the Pacific Palisades High School - California staff voted unanimously to record on their school telephone answering machine. Apparently they've had some problems with excessive absences and parents demanding passing grades despite that fact.

 

I don't know if it's true or not, but it's funny at least:

 

The outgoing message:

"Hello! You have reached the automated

answering service of your school. In order

to assist you in connecting to the right

staff member, please listen to all the

options before making a selection:

* To lie about why your child is absent -

Press 1

* To make excuses for why your child did not

do his work- Press 2

* To complain about what we do - Press 3

* To swear at staff members - Press 4

* To ask why you didn't get information that

was already enclosed in your newsletter &

several flyers mailed to you - Press 5

* If you want us to raise your child - Press

6

* If you want to reach out and touch, slap

or hit someone -Press 7

* To request another teacher, for the third

time this year -Press 8

* To complain about bus transportation -

Press 9

* To complain about school lunches - Press 0

* If you realize this is the real world and

y our child must be accountable and

responsible for his/her own behavior, class

work, homework and that it's not the

teachers' fault for your child's lack of

effort: Hang up and have a nice day!

*If you want this in Spanish, you must be in

the wrong country."

 

I have a hard time believing that was actually recorded, but isn't it so appropriate for just about any area of the country?

 

Edit: This merged with my previous post from a couple of days ago so I didn't think anybody would see it.

[Blade]

(chuckle) It's also proof that many people on the left are wrong. You do realize that it's not just conservatives who are complaining about the quality of American education, don't you?

 

nobody at all is talking left or conservative. where did that come from?

 

again your post dous not make sense.

[ParanoiA]

nobody at all is talking left or conservative. where did that come from?

 

again your post dous not make sense.

 

It came from the classic position of liberal support for federal / state run education and the classic conservative position of support for private education. That video is clearly a pro-conservative conclusion. Which isn't too hard to do when examining public and private education in the country.

 

Just about any american government program or entitlement that involves "children" is plagued with problems. Namely because children are so precious you can never spend enough money on them - no matter what you don't get out of it.

 

It isn't popular to challenge a system for children in america or you will be cast as cruel and heartless and be left with a dead end political career. Telling the truth and demanding better will get you nowhere. Everybody knows if you want something fixed, you throw more money at it.

[Blade]

It came from the classic position of liberal support for federal / state run education and the classic conservative position of support for private education. That video is clearly a pro-conservative conclusion. Which isn't too hard to do when examining public and private education in the country.

 

Just about any american government program or entitlement that involves "children" is plagued with problems. Namely because children are so precious you can never spend enough money on them - no matter what you don't get out of it.

 

It isn't popular to challenge a system for children in america or you will be cast as cruel and heartless and be left with a dead end political career. Telling the truth and demanding better will get you nowhere. Everybody knows if you want something fixed, you throw more money at it.

 

i like your sarcasm

[Pangloss]

He does have a knack for it.

[DrDNA]

How are the charter schools working in your respective states?

In this state (AZ), the public schools have, unfortunately, often been ranked 49 out of 50th the last few years. Meanwhile, the governor and state school super keep getting re-elected....but that's another sad story.... The board and super of state schools blame this low ranking on fact that the schools are teaching so many nonenglish speaking students english (but, again, that is also another story......).

 

The 4 highest performing (ranked by standardized test scores) schools in the state are charter schools .

These charter schools get state funding (same amount per student as a public school) but the quality of education generally is equivalent to, or in many cases greater than, that of an exclusive private school education (for the most part anyway, a couple of the charter schools are terrible).

My son goes to one of the top performing charter schools (a college prep school) and the level of education is absolutely fantastic (at least compared to the local public school he would have gone to otherwise).

Unfortunately, there is a big push here to make the charter school curriculum equivalent to the public schools...in effect neutering them. The battle is on in the court system and currently the state school board is winning. The public school board doesn't like being compared against charter school performance year after year and those that can afford to send their kids to private schools are upset about spending thousands of dollars a year while kids that go to these charter schools are getting nearly equiv or equiv education "for nothing".

[ParanoiA]

Unfortunately, there is a big push here to make the charter school curriculum equivalent to the public schools...in effect neutering them. The public school board doesn't like being compared against charter school performance year after year and those that can afford to send their kids to private schools are upset about spending thousands of dollars a year while kids that go to these charter schools are getting nearly equiv or equiv education "for nothing".

 

How freaking sad...I mean really...

[DrDNA]

I'm convinced that they (the public schools) believe their mission is to prepare our children for a future in the growing service industry field.

 

On the bright side, they will probably be making those fries with trans-free oil.

[pioneer]

I define intelligence as being able to do things that machines and computers can not do. Memorizing is not intelligence but a skill, since a computer can do this better with much better long term storage. Knowing how to do research is more intelligent. If one need to know where Iraq is, one goes to the internet and looks this up. This frees up neural data space, while still expanding the possible range of knowledge. Being able to do math in your head is a good skill. Knowing how to use a calculator is more intelligent. This allows one to out calculate most humans, in a head to hand competition.

 

Where computers become useless is creativity and ingenuity. These are intelligent things that machines are not able to do. This is where America is really strong. It is both creative and ingenious. The Hollywood and entertainment complex is part of American creativity. The ingenuity is free market driven, and is especially strong in frontier information techology.

 

This is a broad based statement, but in terms of the world, America is noted for its ingenuity, Germany is noted for is fabrication ability, while the Japanese are noted for their manufacturing capabilities. This sort of reflects each culture. In America, the wild west spirit reins. In Germany, repetition/training allows them to become the world's precisionists. While Japanese culture is cooperative, allowing group manufacturing expertise. Other cultures make use of these strengths to come into their own. Few are a slanted to one area, such that they find more of a balance.

 

In America, people don't have the patience for long committments. Ingenuity levels the field with a constantly changing environment. The country doesn't have a strong sense of unity, so manufacturing requires ingenuity to compensate for a work force that is planning it own future.