Alan Greenspan claims Iraq war was really for oil

[Pangloss]

Well that's interesting. It's certainly news to me, and it's interesting, but it doesn't sound like any conflict of interest has actually come up here. I agree it would be an obvious conflict if he were to actually exercise that option after seeing that Haliburton got contracts.

 

I can't even imagine that a sitting politician would be so foolhardy. I mean what's he gonna do, stick the proceeds in his freezer?

[Blade]

You could just...not post @ all

 

go away dictator. i have freedom of speech

 

Now that wasn't very nice, Saryctos! 50 lashings with a wet noodle!

 

But seriously, Blade, we'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

 

the facts on war profiteering are not hard to find. the oil is not the reason fore the war at all.

 

just follow the money shall we?

 

The Bush Family's War Profiteering:

http://www.democracyrising.us/content/view/57/81/

 

Dick Cheney: War Profiteer

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1117-22.htm

 

Condoleezza Rice

http://www.ruckus.org/warprofiteers/cards/hearts/three.html

 

The Great Iraq Swindle

How Bush Allowed an Army of For-Profit Contractors to Invade the U.S. Treasury

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/16076312/the_great_iraq_swindle

 

And before anyone comments READ EVERYTHING. WHEN IN DOUBT GO GOOGLE.

 

 

have a nice day

[Pangloss]

(sigh) Oh well, I tried.

[ParanoiA]

You never stood a chance...

[hotcommodity]

It depends on how much they like oil...

 

Also, don't forget that some of them probably still think this is completely about homeland security and that Sadaam was responsible for 9/11.

 

I doubt anybody loves oil enough to die for it. Some of the troops may have misconceptions about the war, but the politicians who lead them into war are well aware of the situation, that's why we pay them. It's rather pathetic when greed overcomes common sense and moral standing.

[ParanoiA]

I doubt anybody loves oil enough to die for it. Some of the troops may have misconceptions about the war, but the politicians who lead them into war are well aware of the situation, that's why we pay them. It's rather pathetic when greed overcomes common sense and moral standing.

 

I think if you consider the standard of living and what we'd do without, our very survival actually, some would die for oil - I know I would.

 

The thing is, our acquisition of oil is not in jeopardy, so there's no need. The middle east is not the only place in the world to buy oil, and it's not the only place to drill for it. And now that we have warred for oil, at the very least perceived that way, our acquisition of oil might just be in jeopardy.

[Blade]

it's not about oil. it's about private company's

[ParanoiA]

Yeah, Haliburton. Don't you all get it? Iraq, terrorism, oil...it's all a cover. The american government wants Haliburton to be rich. GWB and Cheney were bought and paid for by Haliburton. All of their efforts have been to get Haliburton more rich. No other country in the world runs on money, does it Blade?

 

Economy? Food? Shelter? Who needs it? Money and business doesn't have anything to do with quality of life anywhere - just misery, war, blood, lust, greed...right Blade? Tell 'em man...

[Blade]

Yeah, Haliburton. Don't you all get it? Iraq, terrorism, oil...it's all a cover. The american government wants Haliburton to be rich. GWB and Cheney were bought and paid for by Haliburton. All of their efforts have been to get Haliburton more rich. No other country in the world runs on money, does it Blade?

 

Economy? Food? Shelter? Who needs it? Money and business doesn't have anything to do with quality of life anywhere - just misery, war, blood, lust, greed...right Blade? Tell 'em man...

 

Give me the facts. What did the taxpayer money buy exactly? Why were there empty trucks. Why exactly were there trucks with a flat tire blown up? Why dous a grown man cry his eyes out when he provided water to the troops?

 

ParanoiA do you belive in facts at all or are u an religios man?

[ParanoiA]

Give me the facts. What did the taxpayer money buy exactly? Why were there empty trucks. Why exactly were there trucks with a flat tire blown up? Why dous a grown man cry his eyes out when he provided water to the troops?

 

ParanoiA do you belive in facts at all or are u an religios man?

 

I'm not religious, that's why I'm trying to get you to come up with an argument rather than pasting in your propaganda articles. If I wanted to read some jaded anti-Bush right-out-the-gate articles, there are millions on the internet to choose from. But I'm not that easy, I require sources to be credible before I read their crap. If GWB did anything right, you wouldn't find it on that disinformation spam machine you're pimping...

[Blade]

the video is from americans fore americans and full of americans. dous that mean nothing?

 

irac fore sale video.

[ParanoiA]

the video is from americans fore americans and full of americans. dous that mean nothing?

 

irac fore sale video.

 

You're kidding right? From americans, for americans and full of americans should mean something?

 

It's bad enough trying to wade through the spin from the major media outlets, let alone to have to deal with spinsters that don't even try to hide their antics.

[Pangloss]

Concur.

 

People should come here to listen, not just to talk. This isn't Listen Radio, I mean Talk Radio. It's a discussion forum. So... DISCUSS. Don't just stamp the podium and demand that everyone listen because you're right and they're all wrong.

[Blade]

You're kidding right? From americans, for americans and full of americans should mean something?

 

It's bad enough trying to wade through the spin from the major media outlets, let alone to have to deal with spinsters that don't even try to hide their antics.

 

new york times

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/15/politics/15halliburton.html?position=&_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1190218624-eQXrX9qjxkObFrMLSHpHWQ

Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37822-2004Aug3.html?

Inter Press Service

http://ipsnews.net/print.asp?idnews=38780

The Virginian-Pilot

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/print.cfm?story=108113&ran=186344

The Associated Press

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/37/11822

The Associated Press

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/012807G.shtml

Tom Paine

http://www.tompaine.com/print/outsourcing_blame.php

The Australian

http://rempost.blogspot.com/2006/11/iraqi-money-trail-may-lead-to-murder.html

Asia Times

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IA17Ak09.html

The Associated Press

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/021607N.shtml

News & Observer

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/030307A.shtml

United Press International

http://www.cdi.org/program/document.cfm?DocumentID=3920&StartRow=1&ListRows=10&appendURL=&Orderby=D.DateLastUpdated&ProgramID=37&from_page=index.cfm

Inter Press Service

http://ipsnews.net/print.asp?idnews=38780

 

Concur.

 

People should come here to listen, not just to talk. This isn't Listen Radio, I mean Talk Radio. It's a discussion forum. So... DISCUSS. Don't just stamp the podium and demand that everyone listen because you're right and they're all wrong.

 

huh somebody is not discussing something? you're not making any sense

[Pangloss]

What I'm saying is that you're just throwing articles at people, and not explaining what you think those articles say or prove.

[Blade]

What I'm saying is that you're just throwing articles at people, and not explaining what you think those articles say or prove.

 

try to read wat i link. k?

[ParanoiA]

new york times

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/15/politics/15halliburton.html?position=&_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1190218624-eQXrX9qjxkObFrMLSHpHWQ

Washington Post..........

 

This is what I'm talking about. This is a discussion forum, not a suggested reading forum. While it's always impressive to include sources, you're not supposed to have the sources do your discussing for you. Otherwise, you're just spamming.

 

Most of us have read much of those kinds of things anyway. We come here to haggle about them, not look for more.

[Blade]

Re-invent the wheel.

 

professional investagative journalists already done the work. the facts are in.

[hotcommodity]

I think if you consider the standard of living and what we'd do without, our very survival actually, some would die for oil - I know I would.

 

The thing is, our acquisition of oil is not in jeopardy, so there's no need. The middle east is not the only place in the world to buy oil, and it's not the only place to drill for it. And now that we have warred for oil, at the very least perceived that way, our acquisition of oil might just be in jeopardy.

 

You're saying that America can't function the way it does today without oil, and you're right, to a degree. However, with all of the educational facilities, innovative companies, and money that Americans have at their fingertips, I'm confident that this country could engineer a new way of living. A way of living that allows us to function as we function now. Saying you're willing to die for the progression of America is one thing, but saying that you're willing to die for oil infers you're willing to die for convention.

[ParanoiA]

You're saying that America can't function the way it does today without oil, and you're right, to a degree. However, with all of the educational facilities, innovative companies, and money that Americans have at their fingertips, I'm confident that this country could engineer a new way of living. A way of living that allows us to function as we function now. Saying you're willing to die for the progression of America is one thing, but saying that you're willing to die for oil infers you're willing to die for convention.

 

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of overnight obstruction of resources. Like, tomorrow morning we wake up and China sets up blockades to prevent us from getting any oil from anyone. We can't re-tool the country overnight and that would be a good reason to fight over it - the mere act of war itself notwithstanding. Nothing that is going on today comes close to this scenario.

 

However, this new way of living you're talking about is exactly what I'd like to see. To me, we already have a long list of reasons to ditch oil altogether and start investing wholesale into alternative energy sources - environmentally friendly choices. Actually, should have been doing this for 50 years now.

 

So, let me just clarify and say I'm willing to die for the survival of the country, but not for convention.

[DrDNA]

Blockade by China: Now that is a scary proposition Para!

 

Unfortunately, I believe that we have proven that we won't have the collective where-with-all to do anything about the current crisis until it becomes a mega crisis (perhaps like the one you describe).

 

It may be an unfortunate symptom of chronic poor leadership throughout much of the 20th century and now into the 21st. Our leaders may have been and continue to better at immediate crisis management (Katrina not withstanding perhaps) than planning to achieve goals.

 

What would the world be like today if Kennedy had proclaimed that we would find alternative energy sources because it is necessary and difficult instead of going to the moon because it is difficult? Don't get me wrong, space exploration is important. But, to me at least, the energy crisis is MUCH more important. And like other grand achievements, the "space race" was in responce to a direct crisis situation (a perception of imminent Soviet nuc threat). If DOE was set up more like NASA to accomplish more direct, far reaching, well defined, alt energy goals (perhaps like it was in the begining, when the race was on to build the bomb against a Nazi/Japanese threat), that would be something we could hang our hats on.

 

Perhaps our successes are our own worst enemies sometimes....we have conquered big obstacles in the past, and the assumption is that when push comes to shove, we will simply dispose of this problem in due time and in a similar manner. Regan stated that we will just develop the technology to move to another planet after we use all the resources on this one up. Amazingly, I recently heard the same thing come from the mouths of a couple of VERY bright junior engineers. How can you argue with that scifi mentality?

 

Just my nickel and penny.....

[ParanoiA]

Not bad for 6 cents...

 

Maybe I'm getting old and cynical, but it seems like generation after generation we incrementally sacrifice value in leadership. We don't have the same caliber of people as we used to. If we do, they're not speaking up or have been bought.

[Phi for All]

Re-invent the wheel.

 

professional investagative journalists already done the work. the facts are in.

It appears then that you are superfluous. Why do we need *you*?

 

I can see you're having a hard time with this concept. We want to hear Blade's argument, backed up by your sources. We don't need just a bunch of sources.

[Blade]

It appears then that you are superfluous. Why do we need *you*?

 

I can see you're having a hard time with this concept. We want to hear Blade's argument, backed up by your sources. We don't need just a bunch of sources.

 

u can see mee as reason inside an un-substanciated discussion.

[Pangloss]

Uh, yeah, whatever.

 

Incidentally, speaking of "blockaded by China", I caught a blurb on the radio today about how China plans to have the largest navy in the world by 2012. I couldn't find anything online about it but I thought it was an interesting (and scary) thought.