Rant about family

[ydoaPs]

Why is my family so obsessed with my atheism? Every time I'm town, they ask "So, are you still an atheist?" and they sometimes even joke about me burning in Hell...TO MY FACE. Now, isn't that messed up? I mean they honestly believe I will be tortured forever, and they are laughing about it! I've been confronted about it 3 times already and I've only been in town since late Wednesday night. If I were to confront them every time I see them and ask them if they were still Christians, they would be SO insulted and probably chalk it up to persecution. If I were to joke about them being Christians, they would be even more insulted. Why can't they just leave me alone about it? What's the big deal, I mean I just believe in one less god than they do.

[Mag]

interesting.

I'd try that once.

"So, you still an athiest?"

response: "yes, are you still Christian?"

 

see what happens.

[iNow]

Peer pressure. "Come on... Are you still such a baby that you won't smoke a cigarette with me?"

 

Also, it's a part of the cult recruiting behavior. They want more to join them. Most won't do it consciously, but do it out of habit. "Be like us. You shouldn't be different. We go to church, so should you." Evolutionarily, it's helped to maintain group cohesion and social pact strength, but in today's society it's manipulative and off track.

 

Last, if they don't change their ways, and you constantly feel like you're being brain washed in their company (I keep thinking of old zombie movies where they want to suck your blood and eat your brains, but I'm sure your sitation is far less humorous since it's real and challenging), try to avoid them... as hard as that may be.

 

 

“When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.” ~ Sinclair Lewis

[Severian]

Considering that you have, in past threads, called Christians 'insane', 'morons' and 'evil' (among many other things), is it really so surprising that they want to change you? Do you think your family would be insulted by these descriptions? What about your uncle?

[Reaper]

If it really bothers you, tell them to cut the jokes and make them see that you are serious about your beliefs. Make them defend their own faith from time to time (Just make sure you don't go overboard and bash them for their beliefs though) And its ok to make a joke about their faith, provided that they don't find it too offensive....

 

I remember when I converted to atheism several years ago, when I was about 15, and I had a lot of tension within my family and community for a long while. Now they are used to it. Sometimes we make jokes about each other's faith, but I can laugh about it because I know that they have accepted my conversion. They usually don't make a lot of "hell" jokes though.

[ydoaPs]

Considering that you have, in past threads, called Christians 'insane', 'morons' and 'evil' (among many other things), is it really so surprising that they want to change you? Do you think your family would be insulted by these descriptions? What about your uncle?

 

So, since you couldn't do calculus when you were in second grade, so you can't do calculus now? Those posts were ages ago and there has been substantial change in my posts since. Those posts are most likely the ones written when I was going through the religious equivelant of the stages of grief. From my point of view, I had just found out that my best friend was not dead or missing, but had never even existed. Does that not entitle one to denial, anger, etc.? That was a long time ago and I have clearly changed. That coupled with your lack of ability to be rational when it comes to anything even remotely coming close to challenging your view of Christianity leads me to believe that at least some of that is out of context. What about my uncle? I've never been anything but polite to him or any of my other family members when talking about religion.

[Phi for All]

Why is my family so obsessed with my atheism? Every time I'm town, they ask "So, are you still an atheist?" and they sometimes even joke about me burning in Hell...TO MY FACE. Now, isn't that messed up?

A family that cares about your immortal soul (at least from their POV) isn't as messed up as you think.

I mean they honestly believe I will be tortured forever, and they are laughing about it!

Maybe they're hiding how seriously they feel about it so they don't spook you into digging in your heels permanently. I often approach my child that way (well, without the outright laughing; laughing at her would make her *entrenched*).

I've been confronted about it 3 times already and I've only been in town since late Wednesday night. If I were to confront them every time I see them and ask them if they were still Christians, they would be SO insulted and probably chalk it up to persecution. If I were to joke about them being Christians, they would be even more insulted.

I'm sure they see it as something you need that you've lost but will find again.

Why can't they just leave me alone about it? What's the big deal, I mean I just believe in one less god than they do.

I would choose to look at it from their perspective. They love you, they want what's best for you but they are projecting what they believe is best for *them*.

 

You may believe in one less god than they do but you still believe it to be true. If they believe their god to be true then you're all on the same page (their copy of the page just has fancier writing than yours does). If I were you the next time they bring it up I'd just tell them, "I really respect your beliefs". Don't ask them to respect yours; let them come to that conclusion themselves. Just keep repeating that you really respect their beliefs until they either drop it or concede that they will respect your beliefs as well.

[john5746]

1) Pretend they are mental patients with dementia. Laugh with them, I mean you know you aren't going to hell, so have fun with it.

 

2) Use sarcasm and dry wit to make them feel small and irrelavent.

 

3) Tell them that you love and respect them and for them to truly love you, they must accept you as an atheist.

 

4) Tell them that you have converted to Islam and will be moving to Iran. After they have cried a while, tell them the truth.

[Pangloss]

Dr. Phi(l) has spoken! Nice post, Phi. He raises a really good point, which is that you're going to have to make peace with what your family is doing, because that's just their way. It's like getting upset that your mom makes you wear a jacket when it's cold outside.

 

I'm more or less convinced that most day-to-day religious interaction exists on this basis. People just need an underlying reason for being good to one another. I guess just being good to one another for its own sake isn't sufficient motivation. (shrug)

[iNow]

He raises a really good point, which is that you're going to have to make peace with what your family is doing, because that's just their way.

Adding another interesting point on top of this... and perhaps more appropriate to the person we're addressing here in the fora... Why can't the family make peace with what he's doing, because that's just his way?

[Sayonara]

Why is my family so obsessed with my atheism? Every time I'm town, they ask "So, are you still an atheist?" and they sometimes even joke about me burning in Hell...TO MY FACE. Now, isn't that messed up? I mean they honestly believe I will be tortured forever, and they are laughing about it! I've been confronted about it 3 times already and I've only been in town since late Wednesday night. If I were to confront them every time I see them and ask them if they were still Christians, they would be SO insulted and probably chalk it up to persecution. If I were to joke about them being Christians, they would be even more insulted. Why can't they just leave me alone about it? What's the big deal, I mean I just believe in one less god than they do.

 

To answer your original question, it's because they are hypocritical.

 

Get them to see this, and they may develop respect for other people's beliefs (or lack thereof).

[the tree]

Peer pressure. "Come on... Are you still such a baby that you won't smoke a cigarette with me?"

For the record, I am almost certain that no-one has ever said this, ever. It's such an odd thing to say. Why would you go out of your way to pressure someone into taking your tobacco? Sure, smokers offer their friends a share out of politeness, but forcing someone to take it just makes no sense. Peer pressure does happen, but nothing like that.

 

Why can't the family make peace with what he's doing, because that's just his way?

Because they're his parents and not the other way around? The structure of the relationship generally dictates that they can give orders and advice on everything and never receive it, except on matters of technology. And that's fine, you can listen to some of it and ignore the rest and grow up having taken a lot.

[iNow]

For the record, I am almost certain that no-one has ever said this, ever. It's such an odd thing to say.

I'm fine that this is your perception, but I can say for a fact that this level of peer pressure happens all of the time. The example above was nearly verbatim what happened to me in 7th grade. Regardless, it is off topic, and was meant only to show how deeply some people will reach in order to get you to align with them on certain issues and experiences. Strangely, I personally find religion much more dangerous than smoking.

 

 

Because they're his parents and not the other way around? The structure of the relationship generally dictates that they can give orders and advice on everything and never receive it, except on matters of technology. And that's fine, you can listen to some of it and ignore the rest and grow up having taken a lot.

It sounds like you come from a very good family, and you are very fortunate if that is so. However, while the hierarchical ranking structure you describe is, in fact, more common, it is by no means absolute. The social pressures we all face in this world are magnified when applied by those with whom we're related.

 

The psychology of the parent/child relationship is by all means very complex, and yourdadonapogos has obviously been pushing down his feelings on the matter for far too long. Like an air filled balloon being pushed under water in a pool, the harder we push our emotions down the more forcefully (and out of our control) they popup when least expected. He does not need to "suck it up" and ignore his feelings when he's being pressured by those he loves. He needs to be authentic with what he feels, attempt to find ways to improve matters, and find the courage and patience to do what's right for him.

 

 

So, put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[pioneer]

Religious uses a particular doctrine, but spiritual is not limited to any one, but tries to find what is common to all. I was brought up as a Catholic. At 13, I was confirmed, which is sort of the Catholic adulthood ritual. I had many questions and was actually encouraged by a priest to explore.

 

My early explorations lead me toward Eastern philosophy religions, which are less connected to a tangible God, but some form of enlightenment. It was a short walk from there, into aetheism. Being an aetheist was useful for getting rid of guilt, so I could degenerate in peace. There were other sides of me to explore, i.e, more natural, so I could become complete.

 

Eventually, the spiral returned when I moved, for a job, into the bible belt. I used to like debating religion with the Christians because I had a wider view of things tha included my own Christian upbringing. To make the discussion more fun, I reread parts of the bible, so I could quote scriptures and use that as ammo to support my arguments. What I found, which I had never realized, was that according to Jesus, and later stressed by St Paul, the death of Jesus left behind the spirit of truth. It amounted to an inner voice, that could guide one to all truth. "you have no need for anyone to teach you, the spirit that abides in you will teach you all things" In a loose sense, this is sort of like aetheism; being able to process the data for yourself apart from learned collective understanding.

 

The aethist may follow their inner voice against religious orientations. But they are willing to sacrifice their inner voice when it comes to following cultural herds. Anyone who is a die-hard political activist is not being fully rational, since they are leaving out a lot of good data. It becomes their replacement for religion, also irrational, just more natural/physical.

 

Nature worship is a fairly primative form of religion, practiced by many aetheists. They don't do the old rituals. But this religion does try to gives human characteristics to animals, i.e, it has feelings, like half animal half human. This religion is irrational to me. But not to aetheists, who pride themselves with the ability to differentiate with the power of reason. The one thing I did learn was that aetheism was a good stepping stone. But it has own limitations. It doesn't do a good job addressing higher modes of human behavior, that take more well power.

 

Whether one believes in religion or not, many of these systems take more will power than the alternatives presented by the aetheists. Their relgions are more based on allowing impulse, instead of strenghtening will power. This is why is tend to follow the lower instead of a higher path. Aetheism tries to go back to a time, before humans were fully human. It is sort a religion using primative will power and selective reasoning. I outgrew it when I reached its limit and started to feel myself de-evolving. For others I would say use this stepping stone, if your inner voice guides you, but don't stop there, there are more stones. It is part of the truth but it is not the entire truth.

[iNow]

As much as you might want to make it so, and no matter how much you twist you internal workings to make it so, let's be clear about something Pioneer. Atheism is not a religion. Your analogy is false. It also does not address the social dynamic presented in the OP, it only serves as your own prostelitizing trying to convince others why what you regard as the "religion" of atheism doesn't suit you.

 

 

Also, you should probably chat with a doctor about those inner voices, maybe get yourself back on to some meds.

[Reaper]

pioneer, your ability to soapbox both amazes and frightens me. Why don't you practice staying on topic and everyone will be happy .

[Pre4edgc]

And how is it nature worship when atheism is not a religion? From what I know, to "worship" something is strictly related to a religion.

 

But to keep to this topic, my dad is a Christian, and I am an atheist. But when I was younger, I would go to church often. But I found the sermons boring because most went against what I believed and rose a lot of questions in my head. Science helped me answer those. Well, most.

My dad keeps trying to tell me on a monthly basis that I should put my faith into something, or else when I die, I won't ascend. But according to Family Guy, I don't think I'll mind...

[Severian]

Atheism is not a religion.

 

I don't mean to derail the thread away from Yourdadonapogos' hatred of his family, but one of Webster's definitions of religion is "a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith", which would definitely qualify atheism.

[Phi for All]

I don't mean to derail the thread away from Yourdadonapogos' hatred of his family, but one of Webster's definitions of religion is "a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith", which would definitely qualify atheism.

It's obviously frustration, not hatred, so lets not fan the Flames. No more of that please.

 

As yourdadonapogos said, he believes in one less god than his family does. He has come a long way in the last year or so in the way he thinks about religion. I'm willing to bet that his family hasn't done nearly as much studying about their beliefs as he has about his. That may be causing some resentment on their part too.

 

As far as the "atheism is a religion" thang, the Christian God is unobservable at His own request. He requires faith without proof so the best science can say is, "We can't measure that, so we'll remain skeptical". While I don't think atheism is a religion, it's still a belief about something unobservable. Since you can't use science to prove or disprove it, you just have to decide which way you believe.

 

I wish everyone could adopt the convention that *any* statement about a deity is a statement of faith since it's unprovable. It would put an end to a lot of pointless posturing.

[YT2095]

the point (and answer) lays here:

I just believe in one less god than they do.

 

so it`s just a conflict of beliefs, it could be ANYTHING, String theory or No strings etc...

 

now we can MAKE this about Religion if you wanted to, but not on a Science forum PLeeeeeze!

[Sayonara]

Doesn't he believe in one fewer gods, rather than one less god?

Just to keep the thread even more on topic than we all thought possible...

[iNow]

...one of Webster's definitions of religion is "a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith", which would definitely qualify atheism.

 

Sorry, mate. No. Athiesm is not a belief system. It is a lack of belief. If someone says that unicorn farts cause erections in leprechauns and I say, "I don't believe you, prove it", then I am stating a lack of belief. The same is true when someone claims there is a god. I don't believe you. Prove it.

 

As atheism is not a belief, but a lack of belief, it cannot, on it's own, serve as the basis of a religion, and as atheism has no body of belief, it has no attendent dogma or rituals. For me also, atheism is not the foundation of my everyday decisions and mannerisms in the way that theist belief is for many theists.

 

Further, belief in and of itself does not make a religion. I believe in gravity too and I even do so with faith. Would that make gravity a religion? Additionally, saying I do not believe in god is not the same as saying that I believe there is no god. This is a crucial difference.

 

Also, you should present more than one definition from one dictionary. Since there are so very many different definitions of religion, we would all need to FIRST agree and accept a definition of religion prior to moving forward in such a conversation in any meaningful way, something which is beyond the purview of this thread.

 

 

 

 

now we can MAKE this about Religion if you wanted to, but not on a Science forum PLeeeeeze!

Right that. This is a SCIENCE forum and most of us do not wish to solicit or promote these types of discussions/arguments. Sorry for my own response on the subject.

 

This thread is about social interactions in a family unit, and the fact that the complexity of this issue centers around disagreement in the chosen religious following of family members is peripheral to the topic.

[Sayonara]

Sorry, mate. No. Athiesm is not a belief system. It is a lack of belief. If someone says that unicorn farts cause erections in leprechauns and I say, "I don't believe you, prove it", then I am stating a lack of belief. The same is true when someone claims there is a god. I don't believe you. Prove it.

No; atheism does make the specific claim that there is no god. Unwillingness to align with a belief either way is agnosticism.

 

Right that. This is a SCIENCE forum and most of us do not wish to solicit or promote these types of discussions/arguments.

Hear hear.

[Phi for All]

If someone says that unicorn farts cause erections in leprechauns and I say, "I don't believe you, prove it", then I am stating a lack of belief. The same is true when someone claims there is a god.

Definitely NOT the same thing. While supposedly shy and reclusive, neither unicorns nor leprechauns *require* you to take them on faith. Find one and suddenly they exist for everyone. But none of the literature says they CAN'T be observed, in fact it usually says they are *rarely* observed.

 

But the Abrahamic God chooses to remain unobservable because your faith in Him is *required*. At some point, according to the literature, He chose to stop interacting directly with humanity (no more burning bushes). It makes Him outside of science so if you choose to deal in any way with Him you must do so without benefit of proof. This particular deity is unique in this regard and you can't classify Him with other supernatural beings.

 

People of faith like YDOAPS' family have spent much of their lives dangling on this tightrope. They know there is no proof (though some try) but they build their faith throughout their lives and treat their beliefs as sacred and unchanging. From their POV, when junior comes along and starts questioning the foundations of those beliefs they either a) maintain their faith and fear for junior's immortal soul or b) fear that he is right and they've wasted a lot of time.

 

I still think the joking about his burning in hell is to deflect from how serious they really are. If they bug him so much about it they are afraid of something.

[pioneer]

The only fundamental thing that differentiates religion from aetheism is the belief in God or not. If you take this layer of argument out, and only look at humanistic philosophy, they are sort of organized in similar ways.

 

The aetheist bibles are not from the distance past but are more modern. God is written in aetheist bibles, but in an anti-type way. I recognize that aetheism needs to downplay itself as a type of religion alternative. It this was obvious then the separation of church and state would have to apply. Right now they have the advantage of being a state funded religion.

 

Let me give the religious side an argument. The Christians have the Devil or Satan. Religious traditions believe in this master of deception who can turn the god fearing into the godless. As long as aetheism uses a anti-god party line, they are a religion, since this argument was already defined as a religion hundreds of years ago. The aetheists can't see themselves as a religion, since this level of distinction is not their area of expertise. I have no problem with the aetheist philosophy but once the G-word is included they become that religion, which was warned about, by religion experts. So the separation of church and states needs to apply.

 

Aetheism is a parasite religion that needs to feed off a host. The aetheists doctrine amounts to, take religion and do the opposite. If they say faith, we will say we need data. If they say God we will say no-God. If they say family, we will push for no-family. If they preach self control, we preach impulse. If they are conservative we are liberals. Name one position of the aetheists religion that is not due to a parasitic type affect?