Boston overreacts again

[swansont]

MIT student arrest for "fake bomb" at Logan Airport.

 

(The news sites I perused don't actually show the device. Great reporting)

 

http://machinist.salon.com/blog/2007/09/21/star_simpson/

 

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/09/woman_arrested.html

 

http://www.boingboing.net/2007/09/21/mit-student-arrested.html

 

People, don't carry anything that has blinking LEDs, or exposed wiring in Boston. Ever. Apparently crude electronics = explosive.

 

They apparently don't understand that a real bomb probably wouldn't look like a cartoon- or MacGuyver-ish-TV bomb. It would be disguised to look like a cell phone, or an ipod, or in a book, or something else mundane.

 

The flaw in calling this a hoax device is that it depends on everyyone in authority not panicking when they see anything out of the ordinary. And inevitably someone will panic, and now that oddly-shaped baguette is all of the sudden a hoax device.

[iNow]

Wow... No wonder so many people in the world thinks we're a bunch of morons. This also adds support in the affirmative for my recently started thread regarding current US tendencies toward fascism.

 

 

"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty. " ~Thomas Jefferson

[Severian]

From the article:

 

Scott Pare said that Simpson is "extremely lucky she followed the instructions or deadly force would have been used. She's lucky to be in a cell as opposed to the morgue."

 

In some ways I don't object to tightened anti-terrorist security. But if you are going to start pointing machine guns at people, you really need to give the people with the machines guns some decent training.

[Reaper]

From the first article

 

Had it not been for the six years we've already lived through irrational, useless, annoying, psychologically defeating overeager airport security -- put in place to prevent an event that could have been solved by a single measure, locking the cockpit doors -- the prospect of a promising young student being killed by cops for wearing a battery on her back might come as a shock.

 

 

Go figure.

 

I live around the area, so there's already been a lot of news coverage around here. Something like this is one of the reasons why we don't go to Logan Airport anymore. I'm not surprised, they did something like this before. The people here just need to lighten up and get on with life.

 

I sometimes feel like the world is getting ever more stupid as the years go on *sigh*.

[Bettina]

She was STUPID....plain and simple.

 

Anyone walking into an airport with a circuit board, wires, and a battery, all connected to what looked like plastic explosive (PlayDoh) is a complete moron that almost got herself killed.

 

Maybe it was ok in your time, but in my time there are too many nutjobs trying to blow things up so I rather err on the side of caution.

 

I'm also 19, but I'm not clueless.

 

Bettina

[gcol]

Well said, Bettina. I would rather one fool gets their arse kicked for being provocatively stupid than one innocent person is killed or maimed by a real device.

 

Do I smell the nascence of a new pressure group called perhaps "stupid rights", demanding the constitutional right to be stupid without fear of prosecution.

 

Idiots of the world unite, you have nothing to lose.

 

I guess it could happen, but only in America. There are a lot of potential members.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

If she had gotten through security, I could imagine the new strategy being "make your bomb as blatant as possible so they don't think it's a real bomb."

[bascule]

I'm still trying to understand this wires -> bomb -> hoax progression. Apparently anytime something is mistaken for a bomb (at least in Boston), it's instantly labeled a hoax by the media.

 

You know what would've made it a hoax? If she somehow purported it was a bomb.

 

Here's the "hoax device" in question. Looks like a breadboard with some LEDs and a 9V battery.

 

http://machinist.salon.com/blog/2007/09/21/star_simpson/index.html

 

[Reaper]

She was STUPID....plain and simple.

 

Anyone walking into an airport with a circuit board, wires, and a battery, all connected to what looked like plastic explosive (PlayDoh) is a complete moron that almost got herself killed.

 

Maybe it was ok in your time, but in my time there are too many nutjobs trying to blow things up so I rather err on the side of caution.

 

I'm also 19, but but I'm not clueless.

 

Bettina

 

 

The problem with this reasoning is:

 

1) People who do intend to carry a bomb and blow something up will likely be far more subtle in their methods. It's not like, as Swansont said earlier, what you normally see on cartoons or in other popular media. They aren't going to be walking around with the word "bomb" in big flashing letters, nor are they going to walk around with explosive chemicals in plain sight.

 

2) I don't think a bomb is powered by a 9-volt battery, and one doesn't usually see the circuit boards on the bomb, nor are they as big as the one depicted on the student. Also, circuit boards are usually used on either guided munitions or on timed weapons. Other then that, you only need a fuse.

 

3) There were always a lot of nutjobs trying to blow stuff up, and today is no different, whether its by criminals, terrorists, governments, etc. And in all truth, is someone is really dedicated to blowing themselves up or is intent on hurting other people, there isn't much you can do about it. And no amount of policing and security is going to stop it from happening. I'm the same generation as you are, but I do not support what is obviously a paranoid reaction and an infringement on our liberties in the US.

 

I'm still trying to understand this wires -> bomb -> hoax progression. Apparently anytime something is mistaken for a bomb (at least in Boston), it's instantly labeled a hoax by the media.

 

 

I'm not sure why they do this, but my reasoning tells me that it is probably so that they don't lose credibility and/or it is a way to remove the responsibility of their actions from themselves. In short, it is a way to justify their actions.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

You're assuming that a terrorist will follow the stereotypical bomb guidelines and build the bomb into a BlackBerry or something. If something so blatantly obvious as a breadboard and a battery can get through security, why not disguise a bomb as a breadboard and some batteries?

[Pangloss]

We don't let people walk through with hairspray and shampoo, why would we let them walk through with circuit boards wired to battries? Duh.

 

If this person had gotten through security with that thing, you would have seen the student video posted to YouTube showing how lax that security is in a matter of hours.

[Reaper]

You're assuming that a terrorist will follow the stereotypical bomb guidelines and build the bomb into a BlackBerry or something. If something so blatantly obvious as a breadboard and a battery can get through security, why not disguise a bomb as a breadboard and some batteries?

 

 

Given that they have not thought of doing that so implies lack of imagination .

 

We don't let people walk through with hairspray and shampoo' date=' why would we let them walk through with circuit boards wired to battries? Duh.

[/quote']

 

Yeah, I know this world is very weird and irrational. What I'm wondering though is why they didn't check the electronic gear in the first place to make sure it was not a threat, rather than sending the SWAT team after her.

 

If this person had gotten through security with that thing, you would have seen the student video posted to YouTube showing how lax that security is in a matter of hours.

 

Unlikely. The tone of the article suggests that she wasn't even thinking about it at the time.

[Pangloss]

You're a security guard. Guy walks up to you in an airport wearing a vest covered with electronics and plastic. Would you reach over and rip it off, or get everyone away and call for backup?

 

It's a reasonable point to SOME extent, I won't say that it's not, but I think you have to put yourself in their shoes. Their job isn't to die stupidly for us, it's to keep an eye out for us.

 

Unlikely. The tone of the article suggests that she wasn't even thinking about it at the time.

 

Yeah I'm sure that "Don't Tase Me Bro" guy said the same thing. Then they talked to his buddies and found out the truth. (shrug) But I don't see how it's relevent either way. The security guards aren't mind readers.

[DrDNA]

Yeah, this is almost as stupid as somebody thinking that someone else would try to blow up a plane by lighting a fuse sticking out of their sneaker.....

What were they thinking, huh?

 

Do what you like, but I prefer to leave fashion vs explosive device arguments off of the airplanes that *I* fly on.......

 

Simply stated: I do not want to (make that will not) board a plane with anyone wearing batteries, circuit boards, and/or blinking lights.....

Will you?

 

The arguments for freedom of expression are absolutely ridiculous in this case.....

I fly a lot and firmly believe that traveling at high speed in a crammed metal tube at 35,000 feet is crazy enough as it is without worrying about idiots like this.....

Take off my shoes and belt? Heck yeah! Give me full body cavity search, fire the flight attendants and hire Navy Seals, give the pilots Uzis, and pack us all in there buck friggen necked for all I care. I just want to survive!

Please, no giving up freedoms arguments here......they do not apply to little metal tubes at 35,000 feet and 450 plus mph....I willingly give up my freedom for a few hours at a time every time I fly and will continue to give it up.....

[Reaper]

It's not really about freedom of expression, its more about whether or not the security system completely overreacted. She wasn't even planning on boarding the airplane, she was just there to pick someone up.

 

Anyways, Pangloss does have a point here:

 

It's a reasonable point to SOME extent' date=' I won't say that it's not, but I think you have to put yourself in their shoes. Their job isn't to die stupidly for us, it's to keep an eye out for us.

[/quote']

 

But this one:

 

You're a security guard. Guy walks up to you in an airport wearing a vest covered with electronics and plastic. Would you reach over and rip it off, or get everyone away and call for backup?

 

Yeah, but she was not covered with plastic and electronics. And even if she was, she would have never been able to get through security under normal circumstances since she wouldn't even get past the metal detectors. It is certainly possible to see whether or not some device is a threat without having to resort to such measures.

[swansont]

I thought it was pretty clear that she had not gone through security. She got to the ticketing counter to ask about an incoming flight, which in all of the airports I have visited, is outside security. You check your bags and get your ticket before the security screening. So nobody is asking anyone to fly with someone who has such a device.

 

I get the impression that she'd worn this piece of artwork before, on campus at least, and nobody said, "boo" about it. It was a breadboard with LEDs on it for crying out loud. People at MIT weren't freaked out about it (why would they be?), so why would she give it a second thought?

 

What this boils down to is that "it looked like a bomb" is such an ill-defined statement. What does a bomb look like? Ask a bunch of people to draw you a picture of a handgun/pistol, and you'll get one of two results — something recognizeable, since your basic (modern) choices are a revolver or a pistol with an in-line chamber. They will all have a barrel, a grip and a trigger. But ask them what a bomb looks like, and I wager you'll get a much wider spectrum of answers — their idea of what a bomb should look like — and nothing that looks like a whole bunch of bombs that could exist, since they are so easily disguised.

[Reaper]

Indeed. Apparently it all boils down to this: all one needs to do is think something is a bomb and before you know it you have the SWAT team jumping on you. And if it turns out to be nothing of the sort, then the person is somehow guilty of a hoax! Makes perfect sense now.

 

It won't be long before people are arrested for carrying watches on their wrists, laptops in their backpacks, or even for having silly putty and paperclips in the same pocket. Hell, it won't be long before people are arrested for carrying their own luggages.....

[Bettina]

It won't be long before people are arrested for carrying watches on their wrists, laptops in their backpacks, or even for having silly putty and paperclips in the same pocket. Hell, it won't be long before people are arrested for carrying their own luggages.....

 

Not at all..... Just a person wearing a black hooded sweatshirt, carrying a circuit board wired to a battery, and a ball of playdoh in her hand that looked like plastic explosive, walking through an airport.

 

Those people who's job it is to protect me aren't given enough credit and I for one applaud them.

 

Bee

[iNow]

Not at all..... Just a person wearing a black hooded sweatshirt, carrying a circuit board wired to a battery, and a ball of playdoh in her hand that looked like plastic explosive, walking through an airport.

 

Those people who's job it is to protect me aren't given enough credit and I for one applaud them.

 

The issue isn't so much what she was wearing. I think all of us here would agree that it's a stupid thing to go into an airport wearing a wired up sweatshirt with a battery, but the issue is how the security personnel reacted. All of this control and zero tolerance in the name of public safety just smells wrong.

 

If you read the first article linked in the OP, you'll see that the authorities were stating just "how lucky she is" that they didn't put a bullet in her skull.

 

Really? Has the baggage claim area become that much of a war zone that we need to shoot people? You'd better not flip someone off in the Starbucks line or your ass could get tazered.

 

There's a lot of tense people at the airport counters, people late for planes, headed to stressful meetings, light on sleep and food... who are all already in bad moods. Are they lucky too that they didn't get bullets in their skull? At what point have we gone too far? At what point do we realize that we're headed in the wrong direction and change course?

 

Of course the security personnel at airports have a tough job. Of course not all of them know what is and is not a bomb. This is part of the problem.

 

However, to escalate so quickly from "that's pretty strange, we should go check it out" all the way to "you're lucky we didn't put a bullet in your skull" seems to skip a few intelligent steps, and illustrates just how far the "force in the name of protection" has already gone.

 

I want to be safe. I want others to be safe. I think this can be done more intelligently than we do now.

 

 

Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[bascule]

You're assuming that a terrorist will follow the stereotypical bomb guidelines and build the bomb into a BlackBerry or something. If something so blatantly obvious as a breadboard and a battery can get through security, why not disguise a bomb as a breadboard and some batteries?

 

It's better to treat anything with wires sticking out as if it's a bomb by default? Plastic explosives let you disguise a bomb as anything, so why not treat everything as a bomb by default?

 

You're a security guard. Guy walks up to you in an airport wearing a vest covered with electronics and plastic. Would you reach over and rip it off, or get everyone away and call for backup?

 

You're a security guard. A guy walks up to you in the airport with a ticking suitcase...

 

I'm just curious: does this device not have a benign appearance? Does it really look scary to some of you? I mean, I guess I'm just speaking as someone who owned a breadboard virtually identical to that one as a child, and it's not exactly inspiring a lot of fear

[ecoli]

I think this is a big deal for much the same reason it's illegal to yell 'fire' in a crowded theater. Not only does it cause other people to panic and worry about their safety (which can be considered a violation of their rights, I suppose) but it ties up resources of people who have better things to do... like catching real dangerous people.

 

I don't know why this person thought wearing what she did was artistic. But, she was in an airport, and there are security measures in an airport she has to be sensitive to. Entering an airport is not a right.. and we all have to follow the rules that apply there so everyone can stay safe.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I might point out that Play-Do does uncannily resemble C-4. They feel about the same too. It's just that C-4 is most certainly not non-toxic

[DrDNA]

I take a toy gun into a bank and bring it out to play with it in the lobby. Am I really doing anything wrong?

It is just a toy and I'm a nice guy (no criminal record anyway) and the stupid bank security guy shot me in the butt! I mean what was he thinking? If he would have checked, he would have known that I am no real threat! It was just a toy!

Unfortunately, some acts of stupidity, like kissing rattlesnakes, playing with toy guns in bank lobbies, or wearing weird outfits made of circuit boards, playdough, batteries, and blinking lights, come with an inherently high probability of getting one killed.

Why aren't we thanking the SWAT team for showing restraint in not killing her dumb arse? They deserve medals!

[Severian]

A few points:

 

1) She wasn't getting on a plane, so didn't need to go through security.

2) Security officers in airports should at least have some clue of what a bomb would look like. I have no objection to them checking it out, but any 10 second inspection would have resulted in any sane official saying 'Sorry to have bothered you Ma'am'.

3) Why is this more blatant than carrying a laptop? A laptop has a lot more circuitry and plenty of room for plastic explosives in it.

[swansont]

I take a toy gun into a bank and bring it out to play with it in the lobby. Am I really doing anything wrong?

It is just a toy and I'm a nice guy (no criminal record anyway) and the stupid bank security guy shot me in the butt! I mean what was he thinking? If he would have checked, he would have known that I am no real threat! It was just a toy!

Unfortunately, some acts of stupidity, like kissing rattlesnakes, playing with toy guns in bank lobbies, or wearing weird outfits made of circuit boards, playdough, batteries, and blinking lights, come with an inherently high probability of getting one killed.

Why aren't we thanking the SWAT team for showing restraint in not killing her dumb arse? They deserve medals!

 

 

But, as with my objection before, a toy gun looks like a gun. What does a bomb actually look like? Have you ever seen a real bomb, let alone several of them? Can you actually make that call? Remember, it wasn't the police making the initial call here, it was a person working the check-in counter.

 

The rule "don't take anything that looks like a bomb into the airport" can't be applied until someone defines or everyone agrees what a bomb looks like.