Boston overreacts again

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I propose an ISO standard defining a bomb to look like a black sphere with a small fuse protruding from the side.

[Phi for All]

I might point out that Play-Do does uncannily resemble C-4. They feel about the same too. It's just that C-4 is most certainly not non-toxic

I was unaware that C-4 came in bright fluorescent colors. I was unaware that C-4 dries out and starts crumbling after a day or so in the open air. I thought it was more like modeling clay and usually gray and inconspicuous.

 

I keep seeing discrepancies about the "Play-doh". Some accounts are saying there was some "putty" on the breadboard, some are saying she had a ball of Play-doh in her hand. To me this is the critical point. Having a device on your jacket that lights up and distinguishes you from the crowd is artistic. Stick some gray modeling clay (not bright pink Play-doh) and now you obviously want it to look like a bomb.

 

I think security reacted correctly. Take her down and sort it out away from all the people. You apologize for being so harsh if it turns out she just forgot her jacket was airport-unfriendly. You put her in jail if she was stupid enough to put some clay on it that made it look like a bomb.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Usually gray and inconspicuous, indeed. A little dye can always cure that, of course.

 

Modeling clay would be a good description, although it's more malleable than clay (unless the clay's been kneaded a good bit).

[Sisyphus]

I propose an ISO standard defining a bomb to look like a black sphere with a small fuse protruding from the side.

 

That's a little narrow-minded. A bomb could also be a bundle of dynamite sticks attached to an alarm clock.

[iNow]

I propose an ISO standard defining a bomb to look like a black sphere with a small fuse protruding from the side.

 

Would that be ISO 9000 or 14000?

 

 

There's a question swansont keeps bring up which hasn't yet been addressed, but which others have clearly hinted at. Everyone is ranting about the stupidity of bringing something that looks like a bomb into an airport, and how the secuirty staff should be rewarded for... doing their jobs... Yet, what does a bomb look like? It's not like we all agree, and clearly our cartoonish notions of wires and clocks are outdated. So, if none of us can agree what does and what does not "look like a bomb," then how can we reasonbly expect someone not to be "dumb enough" to wear something that "looks like a bomb" into an airport?

[Phi for All]

There's a question swansont keeps bring up which hasn't yet been addressed, but which others have clearly hinted at. Everyone is ranting about the stupidity of bringing something that looks like a bomb into an airport, and how the secuirty staff should be rewarded for... doing their jobs... Yet, what does a bomb look like?

Since the question was brought up by the thread starter it won't be off-topic to pursue it.

 

But rather than ask what a bomb *looks* like, lets start first with what it has to have to *be* a bomb. I'm assuming it requires some sort of explosive material and some sort of detonator. I'm not up on all the latest explosives but I assume it takes a certain amount to be an effective bomb. The detonator could be a timing device (fuse, chemicals, clock, etc.), or a mechanical device (radio remote, pressure switch, contact button, mercury switch, etc.).

 

What else constitutes an effective bomb?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Something that ticks loudly.

[Bettina]

....lets start first with what it has to have to *be* a bomb

 

First, it would need an explosive which could look like a lump of clay. Then you would need a small timing device, or switch, with wires powered by some type of energy source. Then, to make it perfect, have it carried by someone that does not look like a "typical" bomber.

 

Sometimes, the best way to conceal, is to show.

 

Bee

[swansont]

Why have a "typical" (and unconcealed) bomb carried by an atypical bomber? Why not just have an "atypical" bomb? Why aren't we detaining everyone wearing a watch — it's timing device with a power source? Anybody that could possibly be concealing a "small lump of clay?" Why are we defending our airports against such a small fraction of the potential threat, the bombers so stupid that they don't conceal the easily concealable?

 

Let's just deploy the moose and squirrel teams if what we're defending against is a caricature of a bomb and/or bomber.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

But then we'd have to worry about terrorists armed with Goof-Gas.

[DrDNA]

Although I think Capn's ideas are the best I've heard in a LONG time, another solution might be to let the free market decide how we treat these situations.

 

Those of you who care less about what your fellow passengers (or airport visitors) bring on board the plane (or inside the airport) can fly on airline A from Gate A. Airline A welcomes everyone with open arms and hugs are mandatory.

I'll be flying on airline B from Gate B where the passengers are cavity searched, poked and proded 3 times before boarding, there are no flight attendants to serve refreshments on airline B (please grab a bottled water at the door)- they are replaced by big, burly men (or women) trained to kill efficiently at the first sign of trouble, and the pilots carry automatic firearms. All cell phones, laptops, iPods, etc will be thourghly inspected and sniffed electronicly and by trained blood hounds. Anyone wearing fuses, printed circuit boards, batteries, playdough, and blinking lights will be immediately detained (or shot) at Gate B.

[Pangloss]

It's not really about freedom of expression, its more about whether or not the security system completely overreacted. She wasn't even planning on boarding the airplane, she was just there to pick someone up.

 

I thought she went through security as well. That's interesting, I guess that does change the picture a bit, although I still wouldn't recommend walking around an airport wearing "artwork" that looks like a bomb. That's still pretty dumb. And it's dumb anywhere, not just in the US -- remember that incident after 7/7 with the British policeman shooting a suspect?

 

This actually reminds me a lot of that Cartoon Network promotion-gone-awry story from a year or two ago.

[Phi for All]

You need a ticket to go through security. She was picking up her boyfriend and was actually outside the airport strolling around when they approached her. She had stopped by an information booth to inquire about the flight and got questioned about the device. Not a smart terrorist move but since they didn't shoot her I suppose it's a moot point.

 

According to MA State Police Maj. Scott Pare, in addition to the device, Simpson (Star, not OJ) "... also had Play-Doh in her hands". Assuming Pare meant oil-based modeling clay and not the brightly colored flour/water based Play-doh, this tells me Simpson was definitely going for a "bomb" look in her art, not just a flashy LED light show on her hoodie. Who carries clay around in their hand?

[Severian]

A laptop looks like a bomb. Lots of wires and plenty of room for explosives. Maybe we should just start shooting people who are stupid enough to bring laptops into airports?

[iNow]

A laptop looks like a bomb. Lots of wires and plenty of room for explosives. Maybe we should just start shooting people who are stupid enough to bring laptops into airports?

 

At least then I'd have an excuse for missing the 9AM in California.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

People often walk into airports with laptops. People don't, however, walk in with wires sprouting from their chest.

 

Mind you, they already have procedures in place for laptops, requiring you to turn them on and all that.

[iNow]

Mind you, they already have procedures in place for laptops, requiring you to turn them on and all that.

Each time I've flown during the past few months, they just ask that you place it into it's own bin and send it through xray. I've never had to turn it on once.

 

They usually give me more trouble about my insulin pump, as that DOES have wires hanging out of it (more specifically, medical grade tubing that looks like fiber optics). However, as I walk through the metal detector, I just say "insulin pump," and they nod and wave me through. I could technically put some seriously dangerous stuff in the reservoir where my insulin is, but I'm not that kind of guy. However, how can we handle that? How does a metal detector pick up nerve gas or botulism toxin?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

The point is that they at least do something about the laptops. But they can't ask you to put your shirt through the X-ray, I don't think.

[swansont]

People often walk into airports with laptops. People don't, however, walk in with wires sprouting from their chest.

 

Mind you, they already have procedures in place for laptops, requiring you to turn them on and all that.

 

Or just scanned, and sometimes they check they keyboard for nitrogen compunds, but only when you get to security. Up until then, you haven't checked to see if it's a bomb. Nor have they checked your briefcase or purse.

[Saryctos]

If she hadn't reached the security chek point I don't really see a difference between an airport and any other high foot traffic area. Why should she be treated any differently in the unsecure airport sections than say, a shopping mall? Granted, one should be aware of the hightened paranoia warrented by going into an airport, and wearing this thing was quite foolish. I would have at least expected to get a talking to by a security guard if I had seemingly random electronic components exposed on my person.

[bascule]

The point is that they at least do something about the laptops. But they can't ask you to put your shirt through the X-ray, I don't think.

 

Generally they ask you to run anything that sets off the metal detector through the x-ray

 

If she hadn't reached the security chek point I don't really see a difference between an airport and any other high foot traffic area. Why should she be treated any differently in the unsecure airport sections than say, a shopping mall?

 

I completely agree. Unless she's trying to enter a secure area what's the problem?

[blike]

I think she made her point.

[ParanoiA]

Ok, I work in a medium security facility filled with security guards and let me just say very clearly - Do not encourage them to think for themselves.

 

If it's got wires, a battery, looks crude and "explosive-like" - then by all means STOP THE IDIOT! Don't be even more of an idiot by assuming "Oh, bombs don't look like that..." That's ridiculous.

 

I hope to god no security people frequent this forum and get motivated to do nothing because they don't want to look stupid, or suddenly they think they're a bomb making expert.

 

If I was a terrorist, now that I've seen what's happened in Boston, I would make a bomb and then purposely expose wires, throw in some putty, maybe even write the word "bomb" on it - all in hopes that no one will do anything this time - to keep from looking stupid - and then blow up a mall or something.

 

With that in mind, what's illegal about running around with a box of exposed wires, a circuit board and a battery? I see no issue here AT ALL. This person exercised their freedom and wore something that freaked us out - the authorities pulled their weapons and ordered her down and later realized it was not an actual bomb. SHE NEVER SAID IT WAS A BOMB. They interpreted that themselves, so I see no wrongdoing on her part at all.

 

Let her go and laugh it off. The price of freedom. It's rather cheap in comparison...

[Phi for All]

With that in mind, what's illegal about running around with a box of exposed wires, a circuit board and a battery?

Are you forgetting the "plastique" she was carrying in her hand?

I see no issue here AT ALL. This person exercised their freedom and wore something that freaked us out - the authorities pulled their weapons and ordered her down and later realized it was not an actual bomb. SHE NEVER SAID IT WAS A BOMB. They interpreted that themselves, so I see no wrongdoing on her part at all.

This was my initial take when I heard about it. I heard about a breadboard with 9 LED lights, a battery and some MIT insider slogans written on it. Then I heard there was some putty on the breadboard. Then I heard (from the police spokesman) that she had a ball of Play-doh in her hand. That puts it in a whole new light for me. A flashy fashion accessory is one thing but deliberately making it look like a bomb with a visible explosive tells me she knew exactly what she was doing.

Let her go and laugh it off. The price of freedom. It's rather cheap in comparison...

Until you realize the precedence that would set. Do you want students across the country numbing the senses of security personnel with designer "bombs" displayed on their bodies? Suddenly it's no longer very cheap.

[ParanoiA]

This was my initial take when I heard about it. I heard about a breadboard with 9 LED lights, a battery and some MIT insider slogans written on it. Then I heard there was some putty on the breadboard. Then I heard (from the police spokesman) that she had a ball of Play-doh in her hand. That puts it in a whole new light for me. A flashy fashion accessory is one thing but deliberately making it look like a bomb with a visible explosive tells me she knew exactly what she was doing.

 

I don't doubt AT ALL the she knew exactly what she was doing - I simply see no violation of anyone's rights except hers. I have a right to carry around any stupid contraption I want, provided it's not an actual weapon, and I don't see why the onus should be on me to be sure it doesn't look like something that you will freak out about. I'm sorry if you think it looks like a bomb, that's your problem.

 

And turn about is fair play. If she's going to run around with a contraption like that, then she ought not act surprised when the authorities freak out and react accordingly.

 

Until you realize the precedence that would set. Do you want students across the country numbing the senses of security personnel with designer "bombs" displayed on their bodies? Suddenly it's no longer very cheap.

 

The precedence is already set. It's done. Too late to worry about that. And what's the presedence? That we can disguise our gadgets and home made projects like bombs? Did we really never see that coming when discussing freedom and it's price? Maybe not specifically, but I don't see a good reason to violate our civil rights based on goofy ideas of "bomb looking" stuff.

 

Several posters have already mentioned that actual bombs will not be detectable by the naked eye. It could be a laptop, a cell phone, a piece of fruit, or a gangly display of wires and silly puddy. How does restricting "gangly displays of wires and silly puddy" help prevent real terrorism? And how does the desensitization of gawdy look-alike-bombs hurt anything? Think about it. We gain nothing either way.

 

You either allow all gadgets or no gadgets. Cherry picking still leaves us vulnerable.

 

Freedom isn't convenient. But it's worth it.