Free Energy Machine

[Royston]

This article caught my eye, as the company responsible for said 'Thermal Energy Cell' is just a few miles down the road from where I live. Here's some excerpts from my local paper...The Argus.

 

The thermal energy cell being developed by Ecowatts at it's laboratory in Chartwell Road' date=' Lancing, uses 500 watts of electricity to give out 1,000 watts heat energy. How is this possible ? No one knows.

 

Dr Tim Naylor, Ecowatts' research director said: "Whether it goes against the grain of physics, your guess is as good as mine. We start from what we know and assume we are not breaking any laws.'[/quote']

 

Hmmmm, this is how it works, it's a 12in by 2in device that passes an electrical current through a mixture of water, K2 CO3 (potassium carbonate), and a 'secret' liquid chrome-based catalyst. Cold water goes in, and hot water comes out. This went for testing at the University of York, Jim Lyons (who after doing some research, it appears he's involved with rather hokey ideas e.g non-local consciousness) agrees that the device performs as suggested.

 

With the quote above, 500 watts electricity to 1000 watts heat energy, I believe what they're trying to say, is that the device is 200% efficient...giving off 1000 joules in heat. Surely you'd need a heat pump, somewhere on the device for this to hold. Other than that, does anybody have any ideas what the 'secret liquid chrome-based catalyst' could be ?

 

The claim is obviously utter bunk, or there's clearly something on the device that hasn't been disclosed. Thoughts ?

[insane_alien]

when the research director says they don't know how it works they are lying. nowadays you don't simply develop an amazing device and not know how it works. i very much doubt they just bunged this together from random parts for a laugh. i would have to study the device with a hammer and screwdriver to tell you what is really going on.

[Royston]

I found this...I guess it's only hit the press again, due to the testing at The University of York. There's a diagram of how the system works, note 'the secret catalyst.'

 

http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Ecowatts_Thermal_Energy_Cell

 

Researchers believe it taps into a previously unrecognised source of energy, stored at a sub-atomic level within the hydrogen atoms in water

[insane_alien]

catalysis doesn't change the enthalpy of reaction, just the activation energy.

 

also, chemical reactions do not tap into the subatomic anything.

[Royston]

Exactly...so why is the catalyst 'secret.' There's certainly nothing going on at the sub-atomic level, it reminds me of the cold fusion claims.

[YT2095]

it`s not impossible, but sooner or later something will have to be replaced as being Spent.

 

there`s no such thing as a free lunch!

[Royston]

it`s not impossible, but sooner or later something will have to be replaced as being Spent.

 

there`s no such thing as a free lunch!

 

Exactly, and that's what I'm trying to find out, there's either a huge communication problem between the press and the people testing it (which is likely) or there's a part of the device the company have held disclosed. Either way, it'll be interesting to find out where the discrepancy lies...if it's possible, from the information we have.

[swansont]

Odds are the "catalyst reaction" is actually endothermic, and your output will drop to below 500 W after a time. Or they are just screwing up the measurement.

 

And the sad thing is, someone in the popular press falls for it every time.

 

 

edit: another account that notes:

 

According to Prof Smith, if there is a flaw in the company's claims, it lies in the measurement of the amount of electrical energy pumped into the cell. It is possible that, as sparks pass between the electrodes, there is an energy surge which would not be picked up by the instruments measuring the electrical input.

 

Prof Smith said: "This needs to be very carefully checked, as there could be far more energy going in than the makers think."

 

———

 

I see that the second article is more than four years old. Surely someone has done some real testing of this device.

 

One should note that mis-analyzing heat pumps for efficiency is quite common. Moving 1000 W of heat at a cost of 500 W input energy does not mean 200% efficiency, if your reservoir gets colder.

[YT2095]

Moving 1000 W of heat at a cost of 500 W input energy does not mean 200% efficiency, if your reservoir gets colder.

 

a great way of wording it! I like that

[Royston]

I see that the second article is more than four years old. Surely someone has done some real testing of this device.

 

Which is why I couldn't understand, that it's been brought back into the public eye again.

 

One should note that mis-analyzing heat pumps for efficiency is quite common. Moving 1000 W of heat at a cost of 500 W input energy does not mean 200% efficiency, if your reservoir gets colder.

 

Thanks Swansont, I was comparing with electrical heaters, which AFAIK are 100% efficient.

 

It certainly makes more sense that there's an error in measurements, than anyone trying to convince otherwise. I was a bit confused by the media interpretation i.e I thought the results were muddied somehow, for a good article.

[Sayonara]

The device is outputting heat energy derived from the electrical energy that is input in both the present and the future.

 

It's really quite obvious if you think about it until it hurts.

[swansont]

Odds are the "catalyst reaction" is actually endothermic, and your output will drop to below 500 W after a time. Or they are just screwing up the measurement.

 

Turns out it was option b.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/nov/10/badscience

 

"An "energy gain, breaking the laws of physics," was only recorded when the system was oscillating in such a way that the measurement of "energy going in" simply became invalid."

[Royston]

So the contraption has digressed to a mere 'Free Publicity Machine.'

[jryan]

I don't think that this is such an impossible item so long it is pulling extra energy from some sort of reaction. If they claim it nevers needs fuel, then they are lying, though.

[tvp45]

And the sad thing is, someone in the popular press falls for it every time.

 

I'm probably more cynical than you. The press doesn't fall for it; they love it and encourage it because it sells papers and requires almost no reporting work.