fafalone Posted March 29, 2004 Author Share Posted March 29, 2004 I want to live in a place where I'm really free' date=' I place where we're all free to not be exposed to the immoral things that you seemed to be okay with.[/quote'] Yes, it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 I don't want to live in a place where everyone is like me, but I do want to be truly free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 Don't you see that as soon as you start imposing constraints like "you can't do that in my world because I say it's immoral based on these arbitrary rules here", then your freedom is coming at a highly significant cost to others? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 What about the people who want to steal something, what about the people who want to use illeagal drugs? Are they left out of the system? No, becasue what they want to do is wrong. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 What about the people who want to steal something, what about the people who want to use illeagal drugs? Are they left out of the system? No, becasue what they want to do is wrong. Stealing is wrong because it affects individuals or groups in quantifiably negative ways, without their consent or willing participation. Using illegal drugs is not 'wrong' per se. You aren't going to make any aspect of homosexuality wrong by saying "it's a bit like X". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 But it is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 But it is wrong. What is? And in what way? And by whose token? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 I shouldn't have to explaned, it's wrong. It's a fundamental truth, it's like gravity it just is, and nothing change it. -2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 I shouldn't have to explaned, it's wrong. It's a fundamental truth, it's like gravity it just is, and nothing change it. What utter bollocks. PS - we have mathematical proof of why gravity works. And a few hundred years' worth of experimental data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 How then is it prooved? By what other principal is it based? -2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted March 29, 2004 Share Posted March 29, 2004 First you need to nail down a meaning for the term "wrong", which is rather difficult to do in a faith- and culture-independent fashion. Then you'll have to decide exactly what it is you are going to evaluate against this term. Exactly how you 'rate' in terms of 'wrongness' is going to depend very much on your understanding of what it is you are evaluating. I'll leave you with those thoughts, as I am off to bed. 'Night all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted March 30, 2004 Author Share Posted March 30, 2004 I shouldn't have to explaned, it's wrong. It's a fundamental truth, it's like gravity it just is, and nothing change it. ...this is why posts calling you ignorant/idiot/moron are allowed to stand... How can following ones heart to a lifelong relationship of love that in no way deprives anyone else of life or property be inherently wrong? Saying it's wrong and shouldn't be allowed based on no real reasons at all just because you happen to disagree with it is arbitrary. You have offered absolutely no arguments in support of your position beyond your own personal unsupported opinion. Every statement you make makes you sound more and more like an ignorant hate-filled bigot. Go tell your spiritual leader (priest, pastor, rabbi, whatever) that homosexuals should be denied basic human rights and see what happens. Your opinions have no place outside of fundamentalist extremist organizations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atinymonkey Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Why is it the religious types are always the first to the post when there is bigotry afoot? I have a suspicion that being taught doctrine allow sets of people to ignore reason and logic in favor of random opinions. Homophobic views like Demosthenes holds just make me tired, and I can't muster up the effort anymore. That's quite worrying because it's all to easy to just get angry when presented with those views, and I don't really see the point in allowing homophobic twisted viewpoints to get me annoyed. It justs makes the sad little man feel like a martyr. I'll just sit and wait until he comments on Jews, and Africans being of less intelligence than white folk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfson Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Demosthenes how old are ten, if your any older you should be ashamed with yourself, saying gay in a derogatory manner not only makes you look stupid but also offends people, and here at the science forums, we are not in the habit of offending people, so i would kindly appreciate it, if you would try and kerb your attitude. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blike Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 How can following ones heart to a lifelong relationship of love that in no way deprives anyone else of life or property be inherently wrong? Saying it's wrong and shouldn't be allowed based on no real reasons at all just because you happen to disagree with it is arbitrary. The same way that that consentual sex between a minor and an adult is wrong. You cannot strictly base law on whether or not their is a victim. Even if you could, what is your basis for that? Why is anything wrong? What is right and what is wrong is essentially what is agreed upon by a given community to be right or wrong. One hundred years ago, the majority of this country would have been horrified at homosexuality. It was wrong, and they were just as entitled to believe so as you are to believe that it is not wrong. Just because some people still hold to ideology you have rejected doesn't make their opinion invalid. It's just as valid as yours. Besides, his disdain for homosexuality likely doesn't extend beyond words. I assure you it does not deprive anyone of life or property, and in your own words, "how can...[it] be inherently wrong?". -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted March 31, 2004 Author Share Posted March 31, 2004 "The same way that that consentual sex between a minor and an adult is wrong." Apparen't you're still missing the meaning of the term "consenting adults". In fact, the Supreme Court held consenting adults in the bedroom can do whatever they want when it struck down sodomy laws in Texas. Most everyone agrees fecophilia and watersports is a disgusting practice, but the law says if two consenting adults want to do it, that's their right. People have a right to think it's wrong much in the same way I have a right to say I hate <insert ethnic minority here>; but what they don't have is the right to deprive them of the basic rights afforded to everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 One hundred years ago, the majority of this country would have been horrified at homosexuality. It was wrong, and they were just as entitled to believe so as you are to believe that it is not wrong. While this may be true in the States, where 100 years ago there was a lot more conviction behind adherence to religiously derived "moralities" than there is now, most of Europe and Asia has been failing to raise eyebrows for a long, long time. Apart from the higher-ups in Victorian society, who found it fashionable to villify homosexuality as a practice because it made the sport known as "opponent crushing" that much more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blike Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 "The same way that that consentual sex between a minor and an adult is wrong." People have a right to think it's wrong much in the same way I have a right to say I hate <insert ethnic minority here>; but what they don't have is the right to deprive them of the basic rights afforded to everyone else. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted March 31, 2004 Author Share Posted March 31, 2004 -Demosthenes-, I assume you take your username from the Greek orator of the same name. You do realize that Greeks, especially those in the upper class such as Desmosthenes, routinely practiced homosexual acts (interestingly enough, they were not labelled as homosexuals, they were just performing homosexual acts)? You're aware the mentorship relationship between a master of an art (male), such as oration, and a young (preteen-teen) apprentice (also male) traditionally invovled sexual acts between the two? Just a point in history. A figure you apparently idiolize, by your original comment, cannot make his own decisions and shouldn't be a part of society. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 I selected this name for a slightly different purpose. And I don't believe that. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted April 1, 2004 Author Share Posted April 1, 2004 You don't believe it? It's a well documented historical fact. Greek sexuality is quite well established. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 I thought that was Rome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted April 1, 2004 Author Share Posted April 1, 2004 Nope, Greece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glider Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 And Sparta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 The japanese military classes in feudal times had a similar arrangement. Funnily enough called bi-do. No relation to tae-bo though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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