Are Nuclear Weapons Real or Fake?

[ChuckWest]

I suppose most of you are aware that Col Paul Tibbets, who recently passed away at age 94, was the pilot of the B-29 called Enola Gay said to have dropped the first atom bomb on the City of Hiroshima in August 1945. Ok, lets have a closer look at that story for a moment and see if the good Col was suffering from magnitude dyslexia.

 

The story says that the B-29 carrying this atom bomb was cruising at an altitude of about 30,000 feet when they dropped the bomb and it is written that the bomb detonated at about 1800 feet above the city of Hiroshima. According to the testimonials of the crew onboard the Enola Gay two seperate shock waves struck them after the bomb went off and the shock was so severe that they thought they were experiencing flack. One report said the shock was spine jarring. Anyways the crew of the plane that dropped this bomb are clear that the plane was rocked good twice. Col Tibbets told his crew that the second shock wave was a reflection from the ground. So far no problem.

 

I have examined a lot of post bombing photos, aerial or otherwise, of the city of Hiroshima and saw charred trees still standing, streets clear of debris and read reports that the underground piped were barely damaged. I did not see a crater nor did I see the slightest clue that would indicate a shockwave of any kind. I tried to find some historical seismograms that recorded the blast and none exist I am told. So, here's the problem:

 

How can a plane be violently rocked from a blast 28,000 feet below it while the city only 1800 feet below the blast shows no evidence of a shockwave? I mean, how is this possible? If the blast was sufficient to violently rock a B-29 at 30,000 feet then why were the streets in the city just below the blast not littered with debris, the piping totally obliterated and the ground cratered as if hit by a gargantuan hammer? Are all these people suffering from magnitude dyslexia or is the official record of what happened there untruthful?

 

Here is a small diagram I put together to make the point graphically:

 

[D H]

IHow can a plane be violently rocked from a blast 28,000 feet below it while the city only 1800 feet below the blast shows no evidence of a shockwave?

 

 

What looks like nice, flat farmland in this picture, interspersed by a few scattered buildings, is anything but. It is ridden with the debris of what was formerly a very densely packed city before the shockwave flattened the city. Hiroshima was wall-to-wall buildings before Little Man knocked them down.

[Phi for All]

I remember reading about this somewhere (I'll try to find it but this was from a pre-internet book). IIRC, by detonating well above the city the blast was spread out over a much greater area, lessening the total impact on denser material like the ground surfaces (bare ground, asphalt and concrete). A ground detonation would have left a crater but the aerial detonation just spread to a much greater degree and spent it's energy knocking most everything flat.

 

The double shock the plane felt was probably the oscillation effect any explosion would have.

 

I'm kind of curious what alternatives this particular conspiracy theory is proposing. Kind of.

[D H]

I'm kind of curious what alternatives this particular conspiracy theory is proposing. Kind of.

 

This sounds like it could be fun. Let me hazard a guess ...

 

[all_in_fun]

In July 1947, just a few months after the Allies unconditional surrender to the triumphant Axis powers, an alien spacecraft crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. Among the equipment the tattered American Air Force found aboard this spacecraft were a computing device, a ray gun, and a time machine. With the aid of the computing device the Americans finally cracked the previously unbeatable Enigma code. A small team of Americans used the time machine to travel back to 1932. They fed the key concepts on crakcing Enigma to an obscure Polish mathematician. On returning to 1947, the time travelers found a slightly changed world. The Allies had still surrendered, but with this time with conditions.

 

The ray gun proved to be the key element in winning the war. The trickiest part was in hiding the use of the alien device from everyone, including the President. One idea was to use the ray gun to amplify the effects of a traditional bombing campaign. To this end, the time travelers deployed the ray gun on Dresden, changing what had been an ineffectual bombing into mass murder. Still not enough.

 

The American scientists elucidated the secrets of the ray gun, developing an entirely new physical theory along the way. Surprisingly, it was very similar to a theory originally called quantum mechanics but quickly renamed to quack mechanics after being thoroughly debunked. Americans traveled back to key points in time to help resurrect this theory and to ensure that the Allies would be the ones to benefit from it. One of the Americans who traveled back to 1940 helped jump-start Project Manhattan. Still not enough. The Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs only managed to destroy a few dozen blocks each. However, this was enough to give the ray gun the necessary cover. This time, the Allies finally prevailed.

[/all_in_fun]

[YT2095]

sorry Chuck, but it still looks like Toast to me!

[Phi for All]

I think Chuck was looking for an A-bomb to vaporize everything even beyond the 1800 feet of detonation. While the expanding shockwave is devastating, I don't think Little Boy's vaporizing effect extended that far. Total blast radius was about a mile, so why would you expect it to leave a crater after the energy had already traveled a third of the way?

 

Also, it's much easier to affect a plane flying on a cushion of air, so the shockwaves at 28,000 feet are a no-brainer.

 

Oh, and the trees directly below the blast would have been exposed to a direct downward blast, not a sideways blast that would have knocked them over.

[YT2095]

I think something else that may have been overlooked too, this place was Japan, a KNOWN Earthquake zone (like we get rain in the UK), they built their things to be sturdier or inversely quite Flimsy so as not to inflict harm (think paper walls).

 

so the ones that Are standing were more than likely to have been reinforced Better than anything Similar in the USA for instance where earthquakes are quite rare.

 

this may play a part too!

[ChuckWest]

 

What looks like nice, flat farmland in this picture, interspersed by a few scattered buildings, is anything but. It is ridden with the debris of what was formerly a very densely packed city before the shockwave flattened the city. Hiroshima was wall-to-wall buildings before Little Man knocked them down.

 

I am looking at the photo you posted and I see trees standing and I see the roads very clearly and I see no evidence of a shockwave. What I see is a city that was burned down with incendiaries. Did you know that they started rebuilding that city the very next day? Did you know that oleanders were growing everywhere in this city they said nothing would grow for over 70 years?

 

I remember reading about this somewhere (I'll try to find it but this was from a pre-internet book). IIRC, by detonating well above the city the blast was spread out over a much greater area, lessening the total impact on denser material like the ground surfaces (bare ground, asphalt and concrete). A ground detonation would have left a crater but the aerial detonation just spread to a much greater degree and spent it's energy knocking most everything flat.

 

Everyone gets three guesses, you still have two left.

 

The double shock the plane felt was probably the oscillation effect any explosion would have.

 

Yeah right. Do you suppose those on the ground a mere 2000 ft from the blast were immune to this so-called oscillation effect?

 

I'm kind of curious what alternatives this particular conspiracy theory is proposing. Kind of.

 

Examine the aerial photos of the incendiary bombing of Tokyo on March 9-10, 1945 and you will see that the damage signatures are exactly the same. Tokyo was burned down by hundreds of B-29 using M-69 aimable cluster firebomblets. The M-69 does not produce the slightest shockwave, do the math chum.

 

This sounds like it could be fun. Let me hazard a guess ...

 

[all_in_fun]

In July 1947, just a few months after the Allies unconditional surrender to the triumphant Axis powers, an alien spacecraft crashed in Roswell, New Mexico. Among the equipment the tattered American Air Force found aboard this spacecraft were a computing device, a ray gun, and a time machine. With the aid of the computing device the Americans finally cracked the previously unbeatable Enigma code. A small team of Americans used the time machine to travel back to 1932. They fed the key concepts on crakcing Enigma to an obscure Polish mathematician. On returning to 1947, the time travelers found a slightly changed world. The Allies had still surrendered, but with this time with conditions.

 

The ray gun proved to be the key element in winning the war. The trickiest part was in hiding the use of the alien device from everyone, including the President. One idea was to use the ray gun to amplify the effects of a traditional bombing campaign. To this end, the time travelers deployed the ray gun on Dresden, changing what had been an ineffectual bombing into mass murder. Still not enough.

 

The American scientists elucidated the secrets of the ray gun, developing an entirely new physical theory along the way. Surprisingly, it was very similar to a theory originally called quantum mechanics but quickly renamed to quack mechanics after being thoroughly debunked. Americans traveled back to key points in time to help resurrect this theory and to ensure that the Allies would be the ones to benefit from it. One of the Americans who traveled back to 1940 helped jump-start Project Manhattan. Still not enough. The Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs only managed to destroy a few dozen blocks each. However, this was enough to give the ray gun the necessary cover. This time, the Allies finally prevailed.

[/all_in_fun]

 

You have a very colorful imagination.

 

sorry Chuck, but it still looks like Toast to me!

 

I agree. Incendiary raids will leave a city looking like it was toasted. When was the last time you observed a shockwave in a toaster?

[YT2095]

well I`m convinced now! thanx Chuck the whole Atomic weapon idea is just a Coverup!

 

it was just incendiary carpet bombing, Nukes don`t exist either I`ll bet.

 

 

Farging sneaky govormental sun on the beaches, bastiges all of em!

[ecoli]

Not too many things make a mushroom cloud this big.

 

And what about the effects of radiation, not seen with conventional weapons?

http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/MED/med_chp22.shtml

 

Also, you claim that rebuilding started the next day, where is your proof of that?

 

Also, what is the point of this conspiracy... what would the US have to gain from fabricating an atomic explosion?

[YT2095]

same as they did with the moon landings, have you leaned Nothing!????

[iNow]

Also, what is the point of this conspiracy... what would the US have to gain from fabricating an atomic explosion?

It appears an incredibly ignorant and sheep-like populace.

 

 

Chuck - You need proof, evidence, something more tangible than hand waving speculation to be taken seriously. Just a friendly pointer.

[ChuckWest]

I think something else that may have been overlooked too, this place was Japan, a KNOWN Earthquake zone (like we get rain in the UK), they built their things to be sturdier or inversely quite Flimsy so as not to inflict harm (think paper walls).

 

Hiroshima is located in the Honshu Arc. This is a volcanic zone with five volcanoes that they were monitoring 24/7 with seismological equipment. Do you know where the historical seismograms of Hiroshima or Nagasaki disappeared to? Do you find it odd that they would go missing?

 

On the question of the buildings built to resist an eartquake would you care to eastimate the intensity of the quake equivalency the bomb generated, M3.0, M5.0, M6.0, M7.0, M9? Don't forget, this is reported as a blast of sufficient intensity to rock a B-29 at 30,000 feet in the air. In my estimation a blast that intense would leave a massive crater at 2000 feet from the detonation if it can rock a huge aircraft at 30,000 feet.

 

so the ones that Are standing were more than likely to have been reinforced Better than anything Similar in the USA for instance where earthquakes are quite rare.

 

this may play a part too!

 

I don't think so.

[YT2095]

I can scarcely believe I`m even Having this discussion!

 

next you`ll be saying that the nips where in on it too, to worry the Russians (that incidently were going to there Rescue 2 days before bomb was dropped) so maybe the Chinese?

[insane_alien]

Hiroshima is located in the Honshu Arc. This is a volcanic zone with five volcanoes that they were monitoring 24/7 with seismological equipment.

 

lets see, a resource poor nation fighting an all out war in which it is lHiroshima is located in the Honshu Arc. This is a volcanic zone with five volcanoes that they were monitoring 24/7 with seismological equipment.Hiroshima is located in the Honshu Arc. This is a volcanic zone with five volcanoes that they were monitoring 24/7 with seismological equipment.osing, badly. now, this usually means all non-military value research projects get put on indefinite suspension and the resources used to further the war effort.

 

if material shortages didn't affect the monitoring the people getting shoved into the military and related weapons manufacturing would.

[ChuckWest]

Not too many things make a mushroom cloud this big.

 

Mushroom clouds do not grow out of high altitude blasts. Read the following quote from Wikipedia:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushroom_cloud

 

"Detonations produced high above the ground do not create mushroom clouds."

 

And what about the effects of radiation, not seen with conventional weapons?

http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/MED/med_chp22.shtml

 

From: http://www.jca.apc.org/~izm/sadakoeiyaku.html

 

"I was taken to an area near Mt. Hiji where American doctors from a research institution known as ABCC tested me over and over. I was X-rayed repeatedly in the chest, and from the front and back of my abdomen. I lost count of the actual number. Then I started to bleed about 8 o'clock that night, and the bleeding did not stop until 8 o'clock the next morning. I had miscarried." (From the screenplay of the documentary film directed by Mori Zenkichi, "For The International Community: A Documentary on Korean A-Bomb Victims")

 

Also, you claim that rebuilding started the next day, where is your proof of that?

 

Hiroshima's Post-conflict Reconstruction

 

Also, what is the point of this conspiracy... what would the US have to gain from fabricating an atomic explosion?

 

Money, power, the usual motives.

 

lets see, a resource poor nation fighting an all out war in which it is lHiroshima is located in the Honshu Arc. This is a volcanic zone with five volcanoes that they were monitoring 24/7 with seismological equipment.Hiroshima is located in the Honshu Arc. This is a volcanic zone with five volcanoes that they were monitoring 24/7 with seismological equipment.osing, badly. now, this usually means all non-military value research projects get put on indefinite suspension and the resources used to further the war effort.

 

if material shortages didn't affect the monitoring the people getting shoved into the military and related weapons manufacturing would.

 

Are you saying they stopped monitoring the five volcanoes nearby because they were short of material because of the war? In other words you are saying they would risk the lives of hundreds of thousands of people because there was a risk the war would kill them? Do you see how rediculous that sounds?

[YT2095]

perhaps you`d like to explain away the Radiation that has contaminated many ordinary things and objects there too, isotopes that CAN NOT be found in nature or without the use of such a device?

 

I`m all ears dude!

[JaKiri]

Don't forget, this is reported as a blast of sufficient intensity to rock a B-29 at 30,000 feet in the air. In my estimation a blast that intense would leave a massive crater at 2000 feet from the detonation if it can rock a huge aircraft at 30,000 feet.

 

Lets see the mathematics behind your estimation please.

 

"I was taken to an area near Mt. Hiji where American doctors from a research institution known as ABCC tested me over and over. I was X-rayed repeatedly in the chest, and from the front and back of my abdomen. I lost count of the actual number. Then I started to bleed about 8 o'clock that night, and the bleeding did not stop until 8 o'clock the next morning. I had miscarried." (From the screenplay of the documentary film directed by Mori Zenkichi, "For The International Community: A Documentary on Korean A-Bomb Victims")

 

What's this supposed to prove, exactly?

 

Hiroshima's Post-conflict Reconstruction

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The requested URL /~hipec/conference/001.pdf. was not found on this server.

[ChuckWest]

I can scarcely believe I`m even Having this discussion!

 

Believe it or provide evidence to refute it. That's how discussions work.

 

next you`ll be saying that the nips where in on it too, to worry the Russians (that incidently were going to there Rescue 2 days before bomb was dropped) so maybe the Chinese?

 

The Japanese have a long history of asking the Americans to send military support and equipment to help them crush their internal uprisings and revolts. See the movie The Last Samourai starring Tom Cruise for an example of the Japanese using American consultants and specialists and American machine guns to kill their own people. At the highest levels of government the tribal affiliates are very cooperative. Also, ask yourself why the Japanese would attack Pearl Harbour knowing perfectly well that they could not win and that the payback for that would cost dearly to their own people, and it did as history shows very clearly.

 

Read the following text for a look at the internal conflicts and troubles the B-29 raids solved for the city of Hiroshima and it's reconstruction planners:

 

Hiroshima's Post-conflict Reconstruction

[JaKiri]

Believe it or provide evidence to refute it. That's how discussions work.

 

Actually, the burden of proof is upon you.

 

Hiroshima's Post-conflict Reconstruction

 

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The requested URL /~hipec/conference/001.pdf. was not found on this server.

[YT2095]

Believe it or provide evidence to refute it. That's how discussions work.

 

well I believe I`ve gone far enough in Evidence for now, you`ve STILL not presented me with Any way to explain the Isotopes yet, have you?

 

that`s all the Evidence I need for now

[ChuckWest]

perhaps you`d like to explain away the Radiation that has contaminated many ordinary things and objects there too, isotopes that CAN NOT be found in nature or without the use of such a device?

 

I`m all ears dude!

 

I don't need your ears, it's the eyes that do the work here. Maybe you can explain why oleanders were growing everywhere just one week after a so-called blast they said would contaminate that city for 70 years and why the reconstruction started the very next day if that place was so hot and deadly. I'm all eyes for that one.

[YT2095]

have you Any idea How many plants (and seeds) can survive such radiation and heat?

did you know that there are seeds that CAN NOT germinate unless the pod has been Burned?

have also No idea how long you can survive a lethal dose of Radiation as a Human, and still perform tasks, esp when DRIVEN?

 

I think you do us a disservice by those comments, now, address the Isotope issue if you will

[ChuckWest]

Lets see the mathematics behind your estimation please.

 

From: http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:brCkYWwD9N0J:www.icjonline.com/eqtips/IITK-BMTPC-EQTip03.pdf+%22hiroshima+earthquakes%22&hl=en

 

"The energy released by a M6.3 earthquake is equivalent to that released by the 1945 Atom Bomb dropped on Hiroshima!!"

 

What's this supposed to prove, exactly?

 

That so-called radiation sickness can be simulated with x-rays, what else? Did you know that jellied petrol incediaries can cause cancers and even kill those exposed to it and the black rain it produces when vaporized in massive firestorms?

 

 

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The requested URL /~hipec/conference/001.pdf. was not found on this server.

 

Worked for me. I am not resposible for maintaining that site but I did export the content to THIS webpage. You can read it there if you like.

[YT2095]

evading the issue are we????

 

I S O T O P E S ! ! !