Why do people believe in IDIOTIC things?

[mooeypoo]

Right, so I was roaming the net, answering comments on my vids on YouTube, doing some homework etc, when I got a suggestion (quite .. uhm.. "convincing"..) to "LEARN THE TRUTH! VISIT truthism.com "

 

So, out of curiousity, I did.. I scrolled down three quarters of the page, trying to skip from "why not to believe anyone other than us" crap to the actual THING they BELIEVE IN.

 

So. When I finally regained control over my bladder and breathing after laughing myself to madness, I started thinking.

 

Here's an excerpt of the website:

You people claim that you need proof in order to believe something. OK, great. That's perfectly understandable. However, in actuality, YOU ARE LYING. What you really mean is that you need proof only when it comes to believing this information. Whereas, you don't need proof in order to believe an authority figure. This is the ultimate case of selective reasoning.

 

How do you know that the leaders of this world are not aliens? That's right, you have absolutely no proof at all! Have you ever met them and examined their bodies, etc.? No, you haven't. Oh, but wait, you worship authority, and so you believe whatever they tell you.

 

 

Obviously, I stopped laughing as soon as I realised this is something people actually believe. Now, here's an important point (so i'll bold it out):

 

I am not interested in starting a "is it true/is it false" thread because this is too idiotic to even debate over.

 

What I am interested in is your thoughts about the type of belief: this is an outlandish idiotic out-of-this-world conspiracy-went-mad unbased totally-denying-reality PIECE OF CRAP.

How, in (insert-deity-name)'s name, does anyone believe in those things?

 

I can understand how some psychics and others of this sort delude themselves. I can undertand how a person not knowing how the mind works can see the 'face of jesus' on a burnt bagel and declare God's love for his breakfast. I can even understand how a brainwashed child declares all who don't share his beliefs as infidels.

 

What I just can't figure out is who the DAMN HELL believes *this crap*, that's SO out there and idiotic, that I was *certain* it's a joke page ('till I saw other sites discussing the same things. Go to http://www.falsebeliefs.com/ to see).

 

 

How can people live with such hatred to society that they are willing to believe this idiocy, seemingly for the only reason of rejecting "modern science"....

 

Is this a 'rebellion' thing? Isn't it silly, though? They're denying their own intellect for the sake of 'rebelling' against social 'norms' (as if science is a 'norm'..) this is really weird to me.

 

So weird, in fact, that I just decided to buy Michael Shermer's "why people believe weird things"; but even that book is dealing more with pseudoscience and supertition than.. well.. THESE things.

 

 

what the hell....

 

 

 

~moo

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I'd recommend that book, by the way.

 

And I don't believe everything authorities tell me, though it doesn't really make a difference if they're aliens or Yeti.

[Mr Skeptic]

I think that thuthism.com is an educational website much like dhmo.org. At least I hope it has the same effect.

[mooeypoo]

I'd recommend that book, by the way.

 

And I don't believe everything authorities tell me, though it doesn't really make a difference if they're aliens or Yeti.

 

Yeah I'll read it after the end of the semester when I have a bit more time.

 

But you know, I don't believe ANYTHING I'm told -- I try to double check things and research before I reach a conclusion (unless it's with things that aren't worth the time, like 'is it going to snow tomorrow', which has a futile research anyways ). But these people actually believe in this to the extreme.. to SUCH extreme, in fact, that they go around claiming not only that our entire government are ALIENS (EVERYONE?! There wasn't a SINGLE elected official that was human!? wow) but that they are *very specific* aliens - the 'reptilian' kind (whatever the heck that means)..

 

I just don't get it. Are these people dimented?? is this a mental disease, or just... wishful thinking? what kind of person dreams this idiocy??

 

This is too weird.

 

<sigh of frustration>

 

Alright, I'm.. worried. See, I thought those idiots were 'fringe' group.. that they were 2 kids not understanding the world around them and devising silly 'conspiracy theories' ... I did that as a child (only I was sane enough to KNOW it was a fantasy and not reality, but.. i guess that's why I'm an aspiring astrophysicist and they're a bunch of scared sociopaths denying reality) but this is scary:

 

http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=5847

 

There is a WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE talking friggin GIBERISH here! EXPANDING EARTH!!!!!!! They're TALKING EXPANDING EARTH!?!!?!?!!?!?!!!!!

 

What the hell is wrong with our education system!? what the hell is wrong with us as a species that we have to resort to such insane way of running away from reality!?!? Are we really so STUPID as to give up our intellect for the sake of "adventurous conspiracy" !?

 

Geesh.

 

~moo

[Mr Skeptic]

But you know, I don't believe ANYTHING I'm told -- I try to double check things and research before I reach a conclusion (unless it's with things that aren't worth the time, like 'is it going to snow tomorrow', which has a futile research anyways ).

 

Me too. I even go so far as to question well accepted theories, and even the fundamental assumptions of science. And be question I do mean question, not disbelieve. So far, it seems that to even think, I need to make unprovable assumptions.

 

But these people actually believe in this to the extreme.. to SUCH extreme, in fact, that they go around claiming not only that our entire government are ALIENS (EVERYONE?! There wasn't a SINGLE elected official that was human!? wow) but that they are *very specific* aliens - the 'reptilian' kind (whatever the heck that means)..

 

They provide education and entertainment. Are they at all dangerous?

 

I just don't get it. Are these people d[e]mented?? is this a mental disease, or just... wishful thinking? what kind of person dreams this idiocy??

 

Hopefully, bored people with a sense of humor. If not, at least they provide entertainment to people who really are bored and have a sense of humor. I still think that visiting that website will, on average, result in people being slightly more educated than before

[iNow]

I am curious if certain circumstances in childhood prime the individual to hold strongly to unsupported claims. If the folks who believe in unsupported claims, and were taught to do so while young, and those things which they have believed since childhood are at the root of their being, perhaps they are forced to rationalize those beliefs to overcome the cognitive dissonance they impose... and, my point is that, maybe, they ultimately do so by flatly rejecting the concept of evidence itself?

 

 

I'm just thought surfing here... I really don't know. It's rather disturbing though.

[Fred56]

Obviously, I stopped laughing as soon as I realised this is something people actually believe.

You started laughing, though, because the guy was telling you a joke.

I think I get the joke he is telling, too...

[Reaper]

I guess it probably because there is much more of an emotional lure to believing total crap.

[Fred56]

A: I need proof to believe something.

B: OK, but you're lying. What you really mean is you need proof to believe what I'm saying now, or what I just said. But you believe what an authority figure tells you without asking for any proof. This is the ultimate case of selective reasoning.

A: But that isn't true either, I question what authority has to tell me, I accept it only in the sense that it's from an authority.

B: How do you know that the leaders of this world are not aliens?

A: I don't, but I don't know that they are aliens either.

B: How come that's funny? That's not funny, or even slightly humorous...

 

Ho hum.

[mooeypoo]

Let me clarify something -- the belief itself can be amusing, and I'm far away from being scared of it or the people who seem to believe in it.

 

What I'm asking is what type of people -- or rather, WHAT CAUSES A PERSON to take such insanely extravagant and stupid belief in the first place, and then hold it with such conviction?

 

I don't imagine any of these loonies being anything other than a humorous footnote, but they are one extreme example of a type of people that believe idiocies and PROMOTE them - hence, believe in them with great conviction - while completely ignoring reality.

 

I just don't understand how that can happen to a person, unless we are willing to define all of them as medically insane.

 

Are they?

 

~moo

[Reaper]

Well, I really don't think any of us can provide that one answer you are looking for, because there just isn't any.

 

There are several reasons for why people would believe in incredulous and insane things, such as indoctrination, fear, wishful thinking, spiritual experiences, mental illness, inadequate training in formal thinking, ignorance, stubborness, laziness, false memories, suggestibility, etc. you know, the works.

 

As irritating as frustrating as that is, it seems to me that humans just have the natural ability for being suckers and/or for looking for any justification for denying hard facts when they become too inconvenient.

 

And I'm pretty certain that none of us here on SFN is innocent of holding such biases and delusions. I know that I have at various times in my life found believing in total nonsense to be very tempting, because it just has some sort of emotional lure to it. But the difference between me and most everyone is that I know how to catch myself and I know how to distinguish BS from everything else. Most people have a hard time being able to do that, especially since "everyone else" seems to believe in these things, and there are few people out there teaching the general public the art of distinguishing BS.

 

If that doesn't answer your question, well, then, there really is nothing else I can do.

[mooeypoo]

As irritating as frustrating as that is, it seems to me that humans just have the natural ability for being suckers and/or for looking for any justification for denying hard facts when they become too inconvenient.

 

Yeah.. I'm reading "The God Delusion" now (Richard Dawkins.. great book btw) and he's talking about that too.. the evolutionary basis for belief and religion.. he's saying interesting things, but I just never thought things go *that* far as to set your entire life in a completely rediculous "everyone who's not me is an alien" notion.

 

But then again... religions believe insane things too, so.. I guess I shouldn't be surprised..

 

And I'm pretty certain that none of us here on SFN is innocent of holding such biases and delusions. I know that I have at various times in my life found believing in total nonsense to be very tempting, because it just has some sort of emotional lure to it. But the difference between me and most everyone is that I know how to catch myself and I know how to distinguish BS from everything else. Most people have a hard time being able to do that, especially since "everyone else" seems to believe in these things, and there are few people out there teaching the general public the art of distinguishing BS.

And yes, sure, me too, of coruse, I guess it *is* natural to believe in crap (or.. rather "fantasy" ) but the point is that we are logical enough to also LOOK at our world and pick the 'delusions' that do no 'harm' to our benefit (like Deism, for instance, is such belief.. it's just.. "THERE"... it's not STOPPING anyone from research or from respecting others. I don't share that belief btw, but I can respect it) from beliefs and fanatsies which are simply not true.

 

I used to believe I have unique 'energetic' powers (like in reiki and 'chakras') and can influence people around me physically. As much as this is really flattering belief, it took a few failed attempts to realise this was a fantasy.. it explains nothing, leads nowhere, and is simply false by the mere fact that it's only working on people who believe the same thing.

 

So.. there *is* a distinction.

 

~moo

[doG]

Michael Shermer gave a good lecture on this at TED....

[Edtharan]

"There is one born every minute" P.T. Barnum

[Fred56]

Actually there are a few here too. People who think they understand things, when they really don't, I mean.

You really should watch out for people like that, cause ignoring them doesn't always work.

People with fixed ideas, even about what an idea is, or where it comes from, or what a memory is.

Nothing is fixed. Fixed, or static simply is not a feature of the world, and especially not of things that are alive.

[mooeypoo]

Actually there are a few here too. People who think they understand things, when they really don't, I mean.

You really should watch out for people like that, cause ignoring them doesn't always work.

People with fixed ideas, even about what an idea is, or where it comes from, or what a memory is.

Nothing is fixed. Fixed, or static simply is not a feature of the world, and especially not of things that are alive.

I know you are not familiar with "Decency" and "Debate" - specifically linked together - so allow me to give you a helping hand: The "argument" above is a mixture of "Red Herring" (Trying to insert a brand new subject having nothing to do with the original subject, for the tactic of saying what you want instead of dealing with the REAL issue), and "Ad Hominem" (personal attacks).

 

There are probably more, but those two are the first to pop up, so I thought I'd give you a hand spotting them. It's a good exercise.

 

I supplied links for the definitions, but I know how you like definitions.

 

Cheers, man.

 

~moo

[revprez]

I know you are not familiar with "Decency" and "Debate" - specifically linked together - so allow me to give you a helping hand: The "argument" above is a mixture of "Red Herring" (Trying to insert a brand new subject having nothing to do with the original subject, for the tactic of saying what you want instead of dealing with the REAL issue)...

 

One, "Red herring" is not synonymous with tangent. Two, Fred didn't start that particular tangent, Edtharan did

 

...and "Ad Hominem" (personal attacks).

 

One, Edtharan raised the issue of people's gullibility, not Fred. Furthermore, Fred's speaking generally to the very subject of a tangent he did not start. Two, Merriam's defines ad hom as either "appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect" or two "marked by or being an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to the contentions made." In short, ad hom doesn't apply to personal criticisms of the subject is one of a personal nature.

 

There are probably more, but those two are the first to pop up, so I thought I'd give you a hand spotting them. It's a good exercise.

 

Begging the question, appeal to popularity, equivocation, snorkle. See, I can name drop random "fallacies," too. Not sure if it's good exercise, though.

 

I supplied links for the definitions, but I know how you like definitions.

 

Why you're using Wikipedia for definitions is beyond me, especially when anyone of us can go and vandalize it to our heats content. Perhaps you should've used Wordnet, or Merriam's, or any dictionary with authority. Of course, it would've been nice if you'd bothered to apply even the definitions you supplied.

[Mr Skeptic]

Actually there are a few here too. People who think they understand things, when they really don't, I mean.

You really should watch out for people like that, cause ignoring them doesn't always work.

People with fixed ideas, even about what an idea is, or where it comes from, or what a memory is.

Nothing is fixed. Fixed, or static simply is not a feature of the world, and especially not of things that are alive.

 

I know. People who think they understand things, when they really don't are really annoying.

Like you said, ignoring them doesn't always work.

Some of them have fixed ideas, like the idea that they can go about redefining words or that they are smarter than everyone else.

Nothing is fixed, especially definitions, or the amount of energy, charge, and momentum in a closed system. Always changing, they are.

[Jacques]

A few years ago, I met many time someone who belived in that alien thing. He was having a very elaborate thinking scenario and the mains points were that life is common in the galaxie and that there was plenty of time for different civilisations to conquer the galaxie. He was a brilliant person but was having a paranoiac tendency. He was often giving me some reference on the internet and specialy a figure of authority (don't remember the name). He was so convinced that it was true, and was considering other that didn't belived in that has brain washed idiot by the establishment. I was interested in what he was saying and when he was seeing me, he would stick to me and wouldn't let me go. My interest in speaking to him was not what he was thinking it was. I was simply curious of how an intelligent person could think it was true. He needed attention because no body else would take time to listen to him. Anyway one day is paranoia went agains me and it made me very angry about him and I told him. I never meet him again after that.

I think some people need some kind of gods to be able to live. I also think that he was to much consuming marijuanna and was to lonely and that the main contact whith the world was throught internet.

[mooeypoo]

I was simply curious of how an intelligent person could think it was true.

 

Yeah, I think it's more than that -- it's "how can an intelligent person not require compelling evidence or proof for such extravagant theory" is what I'm concerned with.

 

There are people out there that seem to just ignore the need for proof. I don't get that. I can understand "misunderstanding" proof.. but not even asking for it - or ignoring it -- I just don't understand where that comes from.

 

~moo

[doG]

Yeah, I think it's more than that -- it's "how can an intelligent person not require compelling evidence or proof for such extravagant theory" is what I'm concerned with.

 

There are people out there that seem to just ignore the need for proof. I don't get that. I can understand "misunderstanding" proof.. but not even asking for it - or ignoring it -- I just don't understand where that comes from.

 

~moo

 

I don't understand it either. Some of them will actually walk away or cover their ears to avoid proof that contradicts their own belief. They act like proof is some conspired fabrication.

[Mr Skeptic]

Perhaps renouncing that belief will require them to replace many many other beliefs that were based on it. The more beliefs based on a particular belief, the more unwilling they would be to renounce it.

[iNow]

<Warning: The below is speculation. Take it as such.>

 

What if it has something to do with pack behavior... whereby it was evolutionarily beneficial for our ancestors to ignore their disagreement with the stance (or approach or theory or whatever) of the pack leader. If they challenged the leader, they were ostracized from the pack and tended to die off (since they were not protected by the pack who had the leader with whom they disagreed).

 

Then... years and years passed, and humans developed the prefrontal cortex and the "pack leader" was substituted by religion and/or god(s).

 

 

In essence, those that actively ignored the valid data in favor of supporting the group leader tended to survive more than those who actively pursued the valid data and ignored the wishes of the pack leader. This trait then became stronger, and those who intentionally walked away from rationality did better in terms of the overall population. So, now, we have a greater percentage of people in the population who actively avoid rational proof, and instead grasp on to concepts which seem to protect their place in the group.

 

 

The above was just organic creativity. I'm speculating, but think it has some merit. Any feedback is welcomed, whether warm or flaming.

[Reaper]

<Warning: The below is speculation. Take it as such.>

 

What if it has something to do with pack behavior... whereby it was evolutionarily beneficial for our ancestors to ignore their disagreement with the stance (or approach or theory or whatever) of the pack leader. If they challenged the leader, they were ostracized from the pack and tended to die off (since they were not protected by the pack who had the leader with whom they disagreed).

 

Then... years and years passed, and humans developed the prefrontal cortex and the "pack leader" was substituted by religion and/or god(s).

 

 

In essence, those that actively ignored the valid data in favor of supporting the group leader tended to survive more than those who actively pursued the valid data and ignored the wishes of the pack leader. This trait then became stronger, and those who intentionally walked away from rationality did better in terms of the overall population. So, now, we have a greater percentage of people in the population who actively avoid rational proof, and instead grasp on to concepts which seem to protect their place in the group.

 

 

 

Not so sure about that. I'm pretty sure that those who did actually pursue valid data had a better chance at survival than those who did not. Otherwise, how could we have developed agriculture and astronomy back in the stone ages. Or technological advances for that matter (e.g. Better spears, planning, construction, etc).

 

I think religion evolved directly out of the need to feel connected to the natural world, and to more easily give themselves the belief that they had some significance to the universe around them. Those who believed that would most certainly have a much better chance of survival than groups who did not. Also, religion and spirituality can serve as a powerful motivation and a way to help people to cooperate much more and bind them into groups. That, and combined with the fact that back in the hunter gatherer days they knew so little about the world (and information transfer was virtually non-existent), so it is not inherently irrational.

 

The above was just organic creativity. I'm speculating, but think it has some merit. Any feedback is welcomed, whether warm or flaming.

 

Well, not to upset you or anything, but given your additude around religious beliefs I don't think that post had much creativity in it. It sounds a little bit more like cognitive dissonance.

[Mr Skeptic]

We have the innate ability to horribly mangle the truth in favor of useful delusions. Taking too long to find the perfect significant other? You'll find one that is perfect and nothing anyone says will convince you otherwise. White lies, and by white I mean bridal attire. Sometimes the truth is inconvenient so we make it go away