Shock Value...

[ritual_u4]

Hey guys, I need some help, I've been researching and couldn't find a road - it's that I need to find out what kind of electrical shock are used in North American medicine when a person's heart has stopped? That there are other ways that electrical shocks are used in medicine? If anybody knows, please tell me, I'd really appreciate it.

 

 

Thanks for your time reading this, hope you can help.

 

ritual_u4

[YT2095]

it`s a basic electrical shock of sufficient voltage to overcome the bodys natural skin resistance and a low enough current to work but not burn the patient (usualy between 200 and 300 joules)

 

other sorts of treatment and trust me you DON`T want it! is E.C.T.

Electro Convulsive Therapy (otherwise known as "shock Treatment"), it`s very dangerous and actualy outlawed in places and hurts like nothing you can possibly imagine!

[fafalone]

Have a read of this document: http://www.medtronicphysiocontrol.com/documents/defib_booklet.pdf. Everything you could possibly want to know about defribillation (electric shock to restart the heart).

[Atlantic]

An addition: electricity is also used in electrolysis (to spark a chemical reaction (basically)) to make some medicines.

 

The way i see it: increased current (ampers) creates burns, and increased voltage tampers with your nervous system (what doctors try to achieve in shocking a patient, to send a signal down a nervous system to start up the heart.)

Electrical shop theropy is horrible, its a 1 second process and causes 40 seconds of seizures afterwards. It has been scientifically proven to do no good and I doubt its still used anywhere on earth.

[ritual_u4]

Thanks a lot, guys . You've really helped me a lot. Thanks a lot again.

 

p.s. Oh, since I joined this forum today, I wanted to say I'm glad to be part of this team. I'll try to be helping others too.

 

You the best, guys!

[fafalone]

No problem and welcome to the site.

[Guest Pyro]

LMAO

 

 

ritual...

 

help others O.O

 

thats a laff

[Glider]

ECT is very effective and performed under anaesthesia. It does not hurt and is not dangerous. To use an analogy, it is the equivalent of a hard re-boot and is very effective in cutting short the depressive phase of bimodal depression.

 

During the period when its efficacy was in doubt, a single-blind study was conducted in which all patients were given the anaesthesia, but half (placebo group) underwent sham treatment (everything up to but excluding the administration of current), whilst the other half underwent ECT. Perhaps the most salient result of that research was that a significant proportion of the placebo group went on to commit suicide through depression.

 

There is some evidence of long term effects of repeated treatments on memory, but this is an area of debate as far as I know.

[BrainMan]

ECT is still used and, as Glider pointed out, very effective. I spoke recently with some of the researchers at Washington University (in St. Louis) that have been exploring the posibility of memory problems in patients that have undergone ECT. The memory deficits seen in the patients, although real, is supposedly very minor- at least in the patients they have been looking at.

[wolfson]

Defribillation is used to aguire sinus rhythm, when a person(s) is in V.F or A.F, it can also be used fore a petty palp.

[wolfson]

All that was supposed to say is that a defib is not used when a heart has stopped, that is CPR.

[blike]

Wolfson is right. Using a defib during asystole (completely stopped) is mostly useless. I wouldn't rule out the possibility that it could help, but it's supposed to be used during ventricular fibrillation (hence "defibrillator"). It can also be used in some other rythms. From my limited understanding, many people go into ventricular fibrillation before asystole. It is during this time that they are "pulseless" but the heart is still reacting to electrical signals.

 

Most defibrillators these days are automated. You turn the thing on and it gives you instructions on how to place the pads on the persons chest. From there it takes over and decides whether or not to shock, and whether or not to administor CPR.

 

Typically, if the person is in ventricular fibrillation (or another shockable rythm), the unit will shock once using 200 joules. If no change in rythm is detected, it will up the shock to 300 joules. If there still is no change in rythm, it will up to 360 joules [the numbers vary depending on the machine]. If all three fail, it will tell you to begin CPR for one minute. After a minute, it will try another three shocks. After 6 shocks, the EMT's and Paramedics will continue CPR until they reach the hospital, where the person can be pronounced dead.

[wolfson]

Yes ventricular fibrillation basicly means that the chambers of the heart (Ventricles) are contracting very fast thus the heart is not able to produce a beat, during asytole there is 0 output no contractions, and CPR and atropine/adrenaline drugs may restart the heart.

[wolfson]

Usually VF is attributed to two main factors, hypoxia and Myocardial infraction there are other cases i.e. serious trauma ect....

[blike]

oh ok. I wasn't sure about that.

[wolfson]

And doctors may use a transcutaneous pacemaker when a person is asytole, rather than using a defib.

[YT2095]

and ECT is NOT always done under anaesthetic either! and yes it DOES HURT!

it`s hit and miss, if you get it right it works great, but was NOT a "science" just a series of flukes that ended in favorable results occasionaly, same as frontal lobotomys, often did as much harm as good, althiugh removing the intitial problem, created more as a result of patient care needed. ECT sux!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Glider]

BrainMan said in post # :

ECT is still used and, as Glider pointed out, very effective. I spoke recently with some of the researchers at Washington University (in St. Louis) that have been exploring the posibility of memory problems in patients that have undergone ECT. The memory deficits seen in the patients, although real, is supposedly very minor- at least in the patients they have been looking at.

 

Yes, that's what I had heard. I think there was some suggestion of a cumulative effect also, but that it was not permanent, and reversed once treatment had ceased.

[Glider]

Ah yes, I do remember:

 

Reisner A.D. (2003) The Electroconvulsive Therapy Controversy: Evidence and Ethics. <I>Neuropsychology Review.</I> 13 (4). 199-219.

 

Abstract:

The author reviews literature pertaining to the efficacy and safety of electroconvulsive therapy (ECT), with emphasis on the controversy concerning whether ECT causes brain damage. ECT does appear to be effective in the treatment of severe depression and possibly mania. The types of memory problems caused by ECT are discussed, and evidence suggests that most of these deficits are transitory. Although most evidence points toward modern ECT not causing brain damage, there are still some findings that raise questions about safety. Ethical issues involving this treatment's use, its availability to the public, and informed consent procedures are discussed.

 

As for ECT being very painful, I can find no refence to ECT being a particularly unpleasant procedure (probably due to the anaesthesia: See previous post). What I did find was quite interesting however. It seems there is a large body of evidence to show that ECT, rather than being overly unpleasant and painful, is actually effective in controlling certain chronic pain conditions. I.e. it appears to have significant analgesic effects. For example:

 

<B>Rasmussen K.G.; Rummans T.A. (2000). Electroconvulsive therapy for phantom limb pain. <I>Pain. </I>85 (1), 297-299.

</B>

Abstract:

 

Phantom limb pain is common in amputees. Although several treatments are available, a significant number of patients are refractory. Electroconvulsive therapy (ECT), which is usually given to patients with psychiatric disorders such as major depression, has shown efficacy in patients with a variety of pain syndromes occurring along with depression. Two patients are described herein with severe phantom limb pain refractory to multiple therapies, without concurrent psychiatric disorder, who received ECT. Both patients enjoyed substantial pain relief. In one case, phantom pain was still in remission 3.5 years after ECT. It is concluded that phantom limb patients who are refractory to multiple therapies may respond to ECT.

 

Other examples:

 

Wasan A.D.; Artin K.; Clark M.R., (2004). A Case-Matching Study of the Analgesic Properties of Electroconvulsive Therapy. <I>Pain Medicine</I>, 5 (1) 50-58.

 

Rasmussen K.G., (2003). The Role of Electroconvulsive Therapy in Chronic Pain. <I>Analgesia</I>. 7 (1) 61-68.

 

Fukui S.; Nosaka S., (2002). Changes in regional cerebral blood flow in the thalamus after electroconvulsive therapy for patients with central post-stroke pain. <I>The Pain Clinic</I>, 14 (3), 273-276.

 

Fukui S.; Shigemori S.; Komoda Y.; Yamada N.; Nosaka S., (2002). Phantom pain with beneficial response to electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) and regional cerebral blood flow (rCBF) studied with Xenon-CT. <I>The Pain Clinic. </I>13 (4) 355-359.

 

Fukui S.; Shigemori S.; Yamada N.; Nosaka S., (2002). Chronic neuropathic pain with beneficial response to electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) and regional cerebral blood flow changes assessed by SPECT. <I>The Pain Clinic</I>. 13 (4) 361-365.

 

Canavero S.; Bonicalzi V., (2001). Electroconvulsive therapy and pain. <I>Pain</I>. 89 (2) 301-302.

 

Rasmussen K.G.; Rummans T.A., (2000). Electroconvulsive therapy for phantom limb pain. <I>Pain. </I>85 (1) 297-299.

 

McCance S.; Hawton K.; Brighouse D.; Glynn C., (1996). Does electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) have any role in the management of intractable thalamic pain? <I>Pain. </I>68 (1) 129-131.