Citrix Presentation Server - A little help?

[iNow]

Anyone here familiar with Citrix Presentation Server? Until this morning, I was not. I've spent much of today trying to learn as much as I can about it.

 

It has been proposed as a solution to an issue we have in training as pertains to training delivery in Asia and Europe. There is a concern that in our classroom sessions the bandwidth and network capacity for a few thousand of these users will be too low to successfully hit the server where the training is loaded. To complete the courses, however, the users must complete the exercises loaded on this server. (There are a few complexities and specifics that I cannot go into, but our options are pretty limited to resolve this network capacity issue).

 

So... one of our primary tech contacts suggested using Citrix Presentation Server. It seems this will reduce the need for bandwidth, and users in Asia and Europe would hit the Citrix server instead of the server where the training is loaded.

 

 

Can anyone help me understand:

 

1) Why the Citrix option would be advantageous,

 

2) What types of issues using Citrix might cause, and

 

3) How it manages to reduce the overall need for bandwidth (as opposed to just hitting the primary training server, where we anticipate bandwidth problems)?

 

 

I read that it has something to do with application virtualization, but I have no experience with that, and I need to know more about what is actually happening and why.

 

I've setup a meeting with our Citrix team next week, and I've been tasked with closing this issue and putting a solution in place before the holiday shutdown. I have learned a lot today on my own, but I really need know at a more detailed level how it works, what it's doing, and why it's going to help us (or not). Also, I need to know what types of questions to ask. I'll continue doing more research online, but you are a learned bunch, so I figured I'd ask you too.

 

 

Any comments, suggestions, or explanations of my uncertainties above are welcomed. Thanks.

[krellor]

I guess in order to help I need a little more information. Typically Citrix Presentation Server is used to let remote users run local system apps as if they were installed at their terminal. My question then is whether the training you offer is web based or system based.

 

Also, since you anticipate the bandwidth bottleneck to be in the server room, I don't see how adding an abstraction between the users and the main server (main-frame?) will help that unless you are replacing some sort of fat client with a thin client connection.

 

Basically, if you are having bandwidth problems in the server room there are two main things to do. The first is to upgrade your internal infrastructure. Second is to get a larger WAN connection. I don't know the size of company we are talking here.

 

I get the feeling that maybe there was some confusion as to whether the bottleneck is bandwidth or processing power. If the bottleneck is processing power and the training is web based, then I would make a web cluster (farm) with a load balancing server. I personally find that to be simpler than implementing citrix. On the other hand, if the applications are system apps than I would need to know more about how they are currently delivered to the clients for training before I could give you a comparison between that method and CPS. Good luck and hopefully I am not just confused or confusing you.

 

Krellor

[iNow]

My lack of understanding came through that quickly, eh? Thanks for the response.

 

1) Changing infrastructure is not an option.

2) The issue is in the "pipeline" to the training sites, and the network capacity is low. W

3) The training sits on an external server (RWD), and I presume the idea is to *instead* host it on one of our own Citrix Servers, which has the effect of minimizing the need for greater network capacity. (this is a big speculation on my part).

 

We'll have multiple students hitting the same spot from facilities with poor infrastructure. Someone who knows more about this than me told my boss that Citrix might be able to help mitigate the risk. I'm trying to understand more about how before I meet with them so I don't walk into the meeting like a total dumbass.

 

I really don't know. I have so many questions, and I didn't want to go into next week's meeting as confused as I am right now.

 

Problem: We have to pass students through these training sims which are loaded at RWD. We anticipate network issues as imposed by the infrastructure in the training facilities. Since we cannot improve the infrastructure, we are looking for a way to cheat the system, and ensure that (no matter what) students can complete the sims (which I believe require RWDs proprietary software to work). The problem is that bandwidth might not be high enough to successfully hit the sims.

 

Problem2: I hadn't heard of Citrix until this morning. It's also possible that it's not the "presentation server," I am just assuming. The challenge is that this problem was handed to me by my boss this morning, and he knows even less than I do.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

The biggest question is:

 

Is the training accessed over the Internet (a web page) or is it some sort of server-based application that users connect to with a special client?

[krellor]

What it sounds like to me is that the remote training sites have a slow connection. That is what I assume you mean by a slow pipeline to the training sites. If that is indeed the problem then I am afraid there really isn't much to do about it. Consider the following scenarios.

 

1) I have a server hosting a website, and a dedicated T3 (fast) connection for it. But my server is slow and the pages load slowly. The only way to fix that is to get a faster server or otherwise optimize the application.

 

2) I have a server hosting the website, and the server is smoking fast, but I am using my home DSL connection to connect it to the internet, and the web pages load slowly. The fix there is to get a faster connection (like the above T3).

 

3) I have a server hosting a website and I have a smoking web farm with redundant T3 connections, but my visitors are connecting to the internet over dialup, and the pages load slow. In this case you can't do anything because it is the other ends problem.

 

I think that your problem as you described it falls into scenario number three (maybe minus the smoking server farm and redundant T3). If the WAN connections at the remote locations are slow, i.e. shared DSL or dialup, then there isn't much you could do except put up a server on their local intranet and hope their internal infrastructure can handle the load.

 

I think for your sake you should request more information, preferably a writeup on the problem so that you can pass it along to us to help with. I don't think that you have adequate information to really come up with a solution at this time. Also, like Cap'n above said, it is crucial to know whether the training is some sort of web based training, or some server-based app that is being server through some sort of client. Good luck.

[iNow]

The biggest question is:

 

Is the training accessed over the Internet (a web page) or is it some sort of server-based application that users connect to with a special client?

 

The students will just hit a webpage, where ultimately flash based simulations will run.

 

The bandwidth test supplied by our global IT folks suggested that some more rural areas don't have the infrastructure in place yet to successfully run those flash based sims.

 

We need to find a way to make them work.

 

 

The system in which the flash files are produced is client based, but that's not the issue. Our group creating the sims will have access to the application and the primary server. It's the flash output of what they create that needs to reach the students.

 

 

 

Having done more reading since my last post, I am getting the impression that Citrix helps by ... instead of sending all of the code and html through the network, it basically just sends end user visual outputs (or screenshots). This seems to be how it manages to reduce the need for bandwidth.

 

You don't know what you don't know, I guess. Good lord.

 

I think for your sake you should request more information, preferably a writeup on the problem so that you can pass it along to us to help with. I don't think that you have adequate information to really come up with a solution at this time.

I *know* I don't have enough information to come up with a solution. I am lucky to have a specific team dedicated to doing that. However, what they do impacts my deliverable. I just need to understand what they are proposing and then relay the proposal to my group, where my butt is on the line whether to greenlight it or not.

 

 

I'm not quite one of the executives who the programmers hate... I really don't make executive income yet.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

If it's a webpage, I don't see what Citrix can do for you, unless you're talking about something like NetScaler.

 

In either case, if the issue is the Flash file downloads, you could set up a Squid cache server on-site wherever people are doing the training. You proxy traffic through the server and it keeps a copy of Flash files in its own memory so the Flash files don't have to be sent to forty different people over a tiny internet connection. The Squid server would be on their own LAN, so they wouldn't have to worry about local bandwidth.

 

If you need a more detailed explanation I can provide one.

 

edit: ah! Talking about WANScaler, perchance? It seems to be the Citrix product that does something like what you want. And reading up what you stated before, I'm not sure about Squid any more; it seems like you have more than one place people are going to be training. I'm not quite sure how WANScaler works, so I don't know if that would be suitable for you. It may have to be installed on all the local systems.

[iNow]

edit: ah! Talking about WANScaler, perchance? It seems to be the Citrix product that does something like what you want. And reading up what you stated before, I'm not sure about Squid any more; it seems like you have more than one place people are going to be training. I'm not quite sure how WANScaler works, so I don't know if that would be suitable for you. It may have to be installed on all the local systems.

 

I've encountered that term a few times during my searches today, but haven't spent any time yet looking into WANScaler. I wouldn't have gone down that path on my own, so I'll see where it takes me. Thanks for the tip.

 

Cheers.

[krellor]

The thing with wan scaler is that if all that is being transmited is a website, then it won't help you any more than enabling compression on your webserver would. That might be an avenue to explore. To be honest though, there is not enough information here. As I said above, I think your scenario is number three from my above post, and then your options are increase the speed at the user end, or decrease the size of what needs to be sent. To start with optimize your flash, and then enable compression on your servers. All WANscaler is is a point to point tunnel that compresses traffic.

 

Also, you could look into the traffic generated by a thinclient versus the traffic generated by the site and see which is greater. Anyway, good luck, but if you want a more detailed suggestion than I need more specifics.

[iNow]

krellor - I do very much appreciate your continued attempts to assist. I also recognize how difficult it is to help someone in any meaningful way when ythey have shared so little. I've been in various support roles in the past, and you can't help the user if the user doesn't understand enough to know where they need help. I apologize again for my lack of knowledge on this.

 

That's precisely why I opened the thread.

 

Let's just say the scope of this is huge. The infrastructure won't change, and I've probably used terms very incorrectly above.

 

Among other things, my team is responsible for successful delivery of training to over 10K users in less than 6 weeks. We identified an issue regarding bandwidth, and have concerns that our flash-based sims won't run properly at about 100 of our more rural sites.

 

We were told that Citrix might help, and I setup a meeting internally with the Citrix guys to find out how. That is scheduled next week.

 

Me... I have learned not to go into meetings without knowing a little something about the topic. I had no idea what Citrix is, so I spent my time today between meetings and reports trying to absorb as much as I could. I recognized that it would benefit me to ask questions of folks who know about this so I could... at the very least... improve the nature of the questions I asked.

 

I don't know if these guys are proposing presentation server, or if they're proposing WANScaler. The word "citrix" came up, and it's now my job to know what they're going to tell me before I arrive.

 

Sorry again. I'm usually pretty well versed when it comes to science. I just have no formal training in computer tech or other similar areas... I learn quickly though.

 

I'm going to approach this issue again tomorrow during my lunch and after my operations meeting. I think fresh eyes will help.

[krellor]

I do understand your position, but again, if I were you, I would seek more details. Ask what the mean line speed is in the rural areas that are projected to have trouble. Also, if the problem is that they have slow connections, the sims should still work, they will just have a long download time.

 

By rural sites I am assuming you mean in the sticks where they have little infrastructure. If that is the case then I don't think much can be done except to optimize your sims and site as much as possible, enable compression, and try to shrink the page sizes as much as possible. This might include having a high and low band version of the training, where the low band one has fewer graphics, or in a lower resolution and more compressed format. If you do happen to get more information on the problem I would be more than happy to give you my .02 however much that is worth. Good luck.