House Resolution 847

[ydoaPs]

110th CONGRESS

 

1st Session

 

H. RES. 847

 

Recognizing the importance of Christmas and the Christian faith.

 

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

 

December 6' date=' 2007

 

Mr. KING of Iowa (for himself, Mr. AKIN, Mrs. BACHMANN, Mr. BAKER, Mr. BARRETT of South Carolina, Mr. BISHOP of Utah, Mr. BOOZMAN, Mr. BRADY of Texas, Mr. BROUN of Georgia, Mr. BURTON of Indiana, Mr. CARTER, Mr. CONAWAY, Mr. DAVID DAVIS of Tennessee, Mr. DOOLITTLE, Mr. FEENEY, Mr. FORTENBERRY, Ms. FOXX, Mr. FRANKS of Arizona, Mr. GINGREY, Mr. GOHMERT, Mr. HAYES, Mr. HERGER, Mr. ISSA, Mr. SAM JOHNSON of Texas, Mr. JONES of North Carolina, Mr. JORDAN of Ohio, Mr. KINGSTON, Mr. KLINE of Minnesota, Mr. KUHL of New York, Mr. LAHOOD, Mr. LAMBORN, Mr. LAMPSON, Mr. DANIEL E. LUNGREN of California, Mr. MCCAUL of Texas, Mr. MCINTYRE, Mrs. MCMORRIS RODGERS, Mr. MILLER of Florida, Mrs. MUSGRAVE, Mrs. MYRICK, Mr. NEUGEBAUER, Mr. POE, Mr. SALI, Mr. SHADEGG, Mr. SMITH of Texas, Mr. STEARNS, Mr. TERRY, Mr. TIAHRT, Mr. WALBERG, Mr. WELDON of Florida, Mr. WILSON of South Carolina, Mr. DAVIS of Kentucky, and Mrs. DRAKE) submitted the following resolution; which was referred to the Committee on Foreign Affairs

 

RESOLUTION

 

Recognizing the importance of Christmas and the Christian faith.

 

Whereas Christmas, a holiday of great significance to Americans and many other cultures and nationalities, is celebrated annually by Christians throughout the United States and the world;

 

Whereas there are approximately 225,000,000 Christians in the United States, making Christianity the religion of over three-fourths of the American population;

 

Whereas there are approximately 2,000,000,000 Christians throughout the world, making Christianity the largest religion in the world and the religion of about one-third of the world population;

 

Whereas Christians identify themselves as those who believe in the salvation from sin offered to them through the sacrifice of their savior, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and who, out of gratitude for the gift of salvation, commit themselves to living their lives in accordance with the teachings of the Holy Bible;

 

Whereas Christians and Christianity have contributed greatly to the development of western civilization;

 

Whereas the United States, being founded as a constitutional republic in the traditions of western civilization, finds much in its history that points observers back to its roots in Christianity;

 

Whereas on December 25 of each calendar year, American Christians observe Christmas, the holiday celebrating the birth of their savior, Jesus Christ;

 

Whereas for Christians, Christmas is celebrated as a recognition of God's redemption, mercy, and Grace; and

 

Whereas many Christians and non-Christians throughout the United States and the rest of the world, celebrate Christmas as a time to serve others: Now, therefore be it

 

Resolved, That the House of Representatives--

 

(1) recognizes the Christian faith as one of the great religions of the world;

 

(2) expresses continued support for Christians in the United States and worldwide;

 

(3) acknowledges the international religious and historical importance of Christmas and the Christian faith;

 

(4) acknowledges and supports the role played by Christians and Christianity in the founding of the United States and in the formation of the western civilization;

 

(5) rejects bigotry and persecution directed against Christians, both in the United States and worldwide; and

 

(6) expresses its deepest respect to American Christians and Christians throughout the world.[/quote']

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=hr110-847

What do you think?

[iNow]

I think it's a hollow bill that has no place in government. It should quickly be shot down for the nonsense it is.

 

 

 

It also seems to fly a bit in the face of the 1^st amendement/establishment clause.

 

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/estabinto.htm

In general, the [uS Supreme] Court has demonstrated a willingness to strike down any practices that might be likely to be perceived either as coercive or as a state endorsement of religion.

 

 

 

Is this the kind of stuff that's keeping us from focussing on the tougher issues like climate, infrastructure, healthcare, gay marriage and torture universal civil liberties?

 

 

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

It's not a law. It's just a resolution.

[ParanoiA]

Sounds like endorsement of a particular religion. I do not like this at all. This is entirely out of line. A little premature on my part here, but this should not be tolerated in my opinion. This appears to be a DIRECT contradiction to the constitution. Can't wait to bring this one up at work...

[ydoaPs]

What if a similar resolution is drawn up for every other religion and atheism? Would you still oppose it?

 

Atheist Ethicist responds.

[ParanoiA]

It's not a law. It's just a resolution.

 

In a house of a legislature, the term non-binding resolution refers to measures that do not become laws. This is used to differentiate those measures from a bill, which is also a resolution in the technical sense. The resolution is often used to express the body's approval or disapproval of something which they cannot otherwise vote on, due to the matter being handled by another jurisdiction, or being protected by a constitution. [/i']An example would be a resolution of support for a nation's troops in battle, which carries no legal weight, but is adopted for moral support.

 

I see your point, but I still don't like it. And, arguably, it demonstrates that they would gladly legislate christianity. It would be a bill if it weren't for the constitution - and it would go further.

 

What if a similar resolution is drawn up for every other religion and atheism? Would you still oppose it?

 

Atheist Ethicist responds.

 

Yep. Although I would go for a resolution that tooth fairies are actually theives, guilty of breaking in and entering as well as stealing body parts. Makes about as much sense.

[iNow]

I think perhaps the scariest part is that this tool who proposed it will likely get MORE votes for his actions (as opposed to being run out of office by an angry mob of revolutionists).

[PhDP]

Utterly useless.

 

Even if it's not unconstitutional, it clearly goes against the spirit of the first amendment.

[Mr Skeptic]

(5) rejects bigotry and persecution directed against Christians, both in the United States and worldwide; and

 

Everything except this bit seems reasonable, if completely worthless. This point would be abused plenty. And people who aren't Christians would feel left out. Fortunately, it is just a resolution.

[Pangloss]

Yah I don't think it was appropriate either.

 

I do think the establishment clause is overinterpreted by the secular left. The "wall" is passed through by millions of religious Americans every day. Recognizing somebody's religious beliefs is not the same as establishing them or harming someone else's. There's no harm or establishment in blessing a football game or opening a meeting with a prayer, unless you're forcing everyone to participate.

 

The far left doesn't want equality or fairness, they want an anti-religious agenda pushed forward. The word is "progressive", after all. We did X one year, so next year we need to do X+1. Just like, you know, those evil corporations and their profit margins (we made X last year, next year we need to make X+1). Progressives, capitalists, everyone's in it for something.

 

That having been said, the hysteria going the other way has been ridiculous as well, and portraying this thing as a war has been counterproductive. Was it okay for people to come to government hearings and state their opinions? Absolutely. Was it necessary to fight against the "war on Christmas", no.

 

This is the down side of the great awakening brought about by conservative talk radio and Fox News Channel, etc. But I still believe that over the long haul we're going to be better for it. Now people have an opportunity to see that the battle itself was a waste of time and the divisiveness it brought about did more harm than good.

 

Let's help them see that instead of fighting this pointless battle again.

 

(And may the Flying Spaghetti Monster grant all of your horrorday wishes!)

 

[ydoaPs]

There's no harm or establishment in blessing a football game or opening a meeting with a prayer, unless you're forcing everyone to participate.

 

How would the establishment clause even remotely apply to a football game? Is there some official Senate versus Supreme Court game I don't know about?

[Pangloss]

High school football games are an old establishment clause battleground. More or less forgotten today; I believe the secular side won that one.

[ydoaPs]

The far left doesn't want equality or fairness, they want an anti-religious agenda pushed forward.

 

I don't know who you mean by far left, but I don't think it's largely anti-religious. We are supposed to be a secular nation(as told by Constitution, Treaty of Tripoli, etc). IMO, most of it is about equality and fairness. Take the money issue, for example: "In God We Trust". Who is "we"? What about those who don't trust in gods? Isn't that inherently exclusionary toward atheists?

 

Now, if by far left you mean Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris, then I agree with you.

 

High school football games are an old establishment clause battleground. More or less forgotten today; I believe the secular side won that one.

 

Ah, public high school. Got ya. Sorry, it's late.

[ParanoiA]

Take the money issue, for example: "In God We Trust". Who is "we"? What about those who don't trust in gods? Isn't that inherently exclusionary toward atheists?

 

In the same way that "merry christmas" is exclusionary toward atheists...yeah. It's presumption serves no function and is a cool tradition and tribute to our nation's history. I don't believe in God either but I like having that logo on there.

 

Not to mention are you not presuming a negative from a positive? This feels like when my wife assumes that because I say her sister is hot that my wife is not. Don't ya'll have a "fallacy" on this one?

[Mr Skeptic]

What if a similar resolution is drawn up for every other religion and atheism? Would you still oppose it?

 

Atheist Ethicist responds.

 

 

This is not even a hidden agenda. Those who proposed this resolution did not trip into it accidently. They planned to use lies and sophistry for political purposes to advance the Christian religion. The also fully expected (expect) to get away with it – to be cheered for their use of lies and sophistry, particularly by the Christian community. From this it follows that the Christian culture (and by this I mean the bulk, though not all, of the Christian community) are enthusiastic supporters of a morality of lies and sophistry. Of course, it is a hypocritical endorsement of lies and sophistry. In true hypocritical fashion, they would clearly condemn the use of lies and sophistry by others while, at the same time, cheering its use by those who ‘are on our side.’

 

Funny how the Atheist Ethicist accuses Christians of being "enthusiastic supporters of a morality of lies and sophistry" while themselves making use of lies and sophistry in the very same statement! The only conclusion that can be drawn from the observations that politicians engage in lies and sophistry is that politicians are liars and sophists. The only conclusion that can be drawn from the politicians being supported by the people because of their use of lies and sophistry, is that either people approve of, or are unable to see through, the lies and sophistry. That politicians supporting certain ideas are supported by people with similar ideas is a no-brainer.

 

And condemning lies and sophistry, engaging in lies and sophistry, and then accusing their strawman of Christians of being hypocrites while being themselves hypocrites has got to earn them a prize of some sort.

[ecoli]

What a waste of tax payer money. Anyone who voted for this bill should be forcibly removed from congress.

[Realitycheck]

I wonder how many times throughout our history we've had comparable precedents to this.

[iNow]

Anyone who voted for this bill should be forcibly removed from congress.

 

What do we need to do to make this happen... to make people wake the fu(k up and ensure their voices are heard? What if we had a drawing for an iPhone to everyone who protested? Would THAT be enough?

 

 

 

 

"The only sure bulwark of continuing liberty is a government strong enough to protect the interests of the people, and a people strong enough and well enough informed to maintain its sovereign control over the government."

 

~ Franklin Roosevelt

 

 

 

"A well-instructed people alone can be permanently a free people. "

 

~ James Madison

[PhDP]

How would the establishment clause even remotely apply to a football game? Is there some official Senate versus Supreme Court game I don't know about?

 

Santa Fe Independent School Dist. v. Doe.;

 

The principle that government may accommodate the free exercise of religion does not supersede the fundamental limitations imposed by the Establishment Clause. It is beyond dispute that, at a minimum, the Constitution guarantees that government may not coerce anyone to support or participate in religion or its exercise, or otherwise act in a way which `establishes a [state] religion or religious faith, or tends to do so.'

 

...and it has nothing to do with the "far-left", most of the judges who voted on this were nominated by republicans. The resolution 847, in itself, is not unconstitutional but, with the notable exception of (4), all the points made in the resolution could be made about any other religions. Islam isn't one of the "great" religions ? Bigotery is O.K. against atheists ?

[ydoaPs]

I do find it funny that this resolution says both:

Whereas Christmas, a holiday of great significance to Americans and many other cultures and nationalities, is celebrated annually by Christians throughout the United States and the world;

 

Whereas there are approximately 225,000,000 Christians in the United States, making Christianity the religion of over three-fourths of the American population;

 

Whereas there are approximately 2,000,000,000 Christians throughout the world, making Christianity the largest religion in the world and the religion of about one-third of the world population;

and

(5) rejects bigotry and persecution directed against Christians, both in the United States and worldwide; and

[ParanoiA]

"The only sure bulwark of continuing liberty is a government strong enough to protect the interests of the people' date=' and a people strong enough and well enough informed to maintain its sovereign control over the government."

 

~ Franklin Roosevelt

 

 

 

"A well-instructed people alone can be permanently a free people. "

 

~ James Madison[/quote']

 

"Ignorance is the most expensive commodity we pay for"

 

~ Some really smart dude

 

I guess that's part of the price of democracy.

 

What a waste of tax payer money. Anyone who voted for this bill should be forcibly removed from congress.

 

Ouch! I wonder what Dr Paul would say about this resolution.

[Sisyphus]

Very stupid, rather offensive pandering. They deserve to be mocked mercilessly for it. But it is just an empty, pointless resolution, so I doubt it really violates establishment clause.

 

Aside: I'm not bothered by stuff like "In God We Trust" written on the money, but I AM bothered by the religious right's attempts to blow that kind of thing out of proportion. Newsflash, guys: the "founding fathers" were a bunch of Freemasons nurtured on the ideas and values of the Enlightenment. They had nothing in common with "evangelicals," and the American Revolution was, among other things, a secular humanist revolution. "In God we trust" is specifically NOT "in religion we trust."

[john5746]

RESOLUTION

 

Recognizing the importance of the Winter Solstice Celebrations(a.k.a Christmas)

 

Whereas Winter Solstice, a holiday of great significance to most civilizations and cultures past and present, is celebrated annually.

 

Whereas the symbols of Christmas - the Tree, Yuletide carols, presents and Santa are not representative of any modern religion.

 

Whereas the solstice is an observable fact, not fiction;

 

Whereas all people can observe the solstice and partake in this celebration;

 

Whereas all peoples and cultures have contributed greatly to the development of civilization;

 

Whereas the United States, being founded as an oasis from religious persecution and known as a melting pot of diversity shall recognize this event as a secular holiday, while allowing all citizens to attach their religious meaning to this celestial event;

 

Whereas at this time of year, our ancestors recognized the ending of winter and the coming of spring and celebrated this rebirth in various ways;

 

Whereas Western Civilization happened to adopt the Roman celebration Saturnalia and other Pagan rituals, which were absorbed by Christianity;

 

Whereas solstice is a secular event, it can be celebrated by all peoples and cultures without bringing offense to any reasonable person and the secular symbols should not be attributed to any religion.

 

Resolved, That the House of Representatives--

 

(1) recognizes the diversity of beliefs in the US and the world;

 

(2) expresses continued support for all peoples in the United States and worldwide;

 

(3) acknowledges the secular and historical foundation of the solstice (a.k.a Christmas);

 

(4) acknowledges and supports the role played by the diverse peoples and cultures in the founding of the United States and in the formation of civilization;

 

(5) rejects bigotry and persecution directed against all peoples, both in the United States and worldwide; and

 

(6) expresses its deepest respect to all peoples throughout the world

 

 

 

This would be better.

 

I have since learned that this Christmas resolution was in response to the following resolution passed earlier this year:

 

"Recognizing the commencement of Ramadan, the Islamic holy month of fasting and spiritual renewal, and commending Muslims in the United States and throughout the world for their faith.

 

Whereas since the terrorist attacks on the United States on September 11, 2001, threats and incidents of violence have been directed at law-abiding, patriotic Americans of African, Arab, and South Asian descent, particularly members of the Islamic faith;

 

Whereas, on September 14, 2001, the House of Representatives passed a concurrent resolution condemning bigotry and violence against Arab-Americans, American Muslims, and Americans from South Asia in the wake of the terrorist attacks;

 

Whereas it is estimated that there are approximately 1,500,000,000 Muslims worldwide;

 

Whereas Ramadan is the holy month of fasting and spiritual renewal for Muslims worldwide, and is the 9th month of the Muslim calendar year; and

 

Whereas the observance of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan commences at dusk on September 13, 2007, and continues for one lunar month: Now, therefore, be it

 

Resolved, That--

 

(1) during this time of conflict, in order to demonstrate solidarity with and support for members of the community of Islam in the United States and throughout the world, the House of Representatives recognizes the Islamic faith as one of the great religions of the world; and

 

(2) in observance of and out of respect for the commencement of Ramadan, the Islamic holy month of fasting and spiritual renewal, the House of Representatives acknowledges the onset of Ramadan and expresses its deepest respect to Muslims in the United States and throughout the world on this significant occasion."

[iNow]

"In God we trust" is specifically NOT "in religion we trust."

For a history of printing this particular phrase on our currency, the link below helps:

 

http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml

 

 

Wasn't on the dollar until 1957.

[bascule]

Glad to see the O'Reillys are winning the WAR ON CHRISTMAS

 

acknowledges the international religious and historical importance of Christmas

 

Yes, let's acknowledge its historical importance as the birthday of Mithras