serious ?: is it possible to make shapes out of clouds using cloud seeding ?

[lostinspace]

serious ?: is it possible to make shapes out of clouds using cloud seeding ?

 

me and a group of people saw shapes in the sky the color of clouds that i wont get into that i have always dismissed as having a human component to.. i was hoping i could get verification that it is possible to create distinct shapes through cloud seeding

 

thank you

[thedarkshade]

Under high pressure I suppose.

[insane_alien]

don't know how your going to pressurize the atmosphere darkshade, or that it would have an effect at all.

 

you could make big rough shapes i suppose like a circle by seeding in a circle.

 

but nothing very accurate like the shapes or size of the coulds formed.

 

what you say was probably just your brain looking for patterns that didn't exist. its the same phenomenon that causes people to see religious figures on bits of toast made in a dodgy toaster.

[thedarkshade]

Clouds are water vapor. When you puff a balloon, you have to puff it quiet a lot to get the right shape. And the more you puff it, the more you increase the pressure inside the balloon.

[insane_alien]

yes i know, but clouds are not baloons.

[thedarkshade]

Yes, but how can you give a shape to the vapor without putting it inside a shaped material...

[insane_alien]

okay, if i take a big tank of still water(less convection the better) and some potassium permangante crystals if i drop them in in a big circle shape, i will have a ring of coloured water where the crystals were. this will last until the potasium permanganate has sufficiently diffused for it to lose the shape.

 

if the water is still it could last up to an hour maybe.

 

another example of a shape without a container is a smoke ring.

 

yes, neither of these shapes will last but they will exist none the same.

 

aslo, we know there is no container as they are clouds in the atmosphere, i haven't seen any kilometer scale inflatable baloons anywhere so i'm going to say that the were run of the mill clouds.

[thedarkshade]

like you said, they won't last:rolleyes:!

[lostinspace]

i was at the house of a catholic priest with my mom, myself, the priest, and two of their mutual friends about to eat dinner. the priest went to close the curtains and called out to us "there is a big cross in the sky!" well we all proceed to go outside and saw a cross, a gate, a demons face, and other things that we at the time called apparitions. it was very high in the air and the color of clouds but it was unmistakeable distinct shapes and forms that we could all see and identify. up until a certain point in my life i thought they were apparitions. so did the others. when i heard about cloud seeding many years ago online i assumed someone had spiked the clouds. the shapes would form one right after the other and there were no planes to be seen though. i'm at a point in my life where i really want to know if it was something otherworldly or if it was what i had concluded, seeded clouds and man made.

[thedarkshade]

That sound like hallucinations to me:rolleyes:!

[lostinspace]

we all distinctly saw the same shapes in the sky. not just me. 5 of us.

[insane_alien]

humans have a remarkable ability to 'see' patterns in randomly formed objects.

 

it is entirely possible the shapes came about naturally.

 

also, cloud seeding isn't performed that often. there usually needs to be some good financial incentive. even then they don't go and make shapes.

 

actually, a thought has struck me. are you talking about clouds as in rain clouds or clouds as in vapour trails left by high altitude jet engines?

[lostinspace]

they would have to be rain clouds. there weren't any planes or plane trails.

[insane_alien]

right okay. just checking.

 

anyway, what i've been trying to get at is that people have being seeing shapes in the clouds long before cloud seeding, aeroplanes and well, most technology and science really.

 

ever played the game as a kid where you and some friends lay down and tried to find shapes in the clouds like rabbits and stuff? your brain WILL find a pattern it recognizes, it might not be perfect(probably not) but it will see the pattern in the randomness, emphasize it and make you ignore the rest.

 

this is what brains do. it comes as no surprise that you all seen a shape in the clouds what does though, is you immediately connect it with cloud seeding.

[thedarkshade]

The brain sees what it chooses to see:rolleyes:!

[Phi for All]

this is what brains do.

Absolutely. Your brain is looking to categorize whatever your senses feed into it. The brain hates a mystery so you'll generally classify all input almost without thinking about it.

 

The same is true of sounds, smells, tastes and textures. Ever hear something you didn't recognize at first, then you figure out what it must be, only to find out later it was something completely different? I did this once when the plastic end of a curtain cord was ticking against the wall as the wind moved the curtain. I couldn't place the sound at first, then it very clearly resolved itself into the sound of someone walking up my front steps with hard heels. I had to rethink this classification when the clicking of the heels didn't stop or change rhythm, but my brain so much wanted to be right that the first alternative that came to me was that the person was *pacing* on my front steps.

[thedarkshade]

You know, sometimes I just stare at something (with no intention) as part of relaxing and "see" many figures. You can almost see anything, it's enough to have seen it once or imagined it and there you go, you got the picture on the wall!

 

But what lostinspace has seen (or imagined) is also what four other saw together with him. So I don't think that the "brain work" stuff is relevant.

[Phi for All]

But what lostinspace has seen (or imagined) is also what four other saw together with him. So I don't think that the "brain work" stuff is relevant.

Look, until someone said, "Hey, come look at the shapes in the clouds!" everyone at that party probably would have glanced upward and their brains would've said, "Clouds, cumulus, big, white, no rain". As soon as someone suggests there are other things to be seen in them, everyone's brains started reclassification. The cross would've been obvious to most (unless the mathematician at the party had seen it first and said, "Hey everybody, there's a big plus sign in the sky!"), but then someone else's brain (probably biased by the religious tone) found a demon's face. As soon as someone mentions it then everyone's brain looks for the demon, and will eventually find it (remember how badly the brain wants to classify information).

 

This is definitely more of a psychological question as opposed to an environmental one. I'll bet Glider would have some great input if the thread starter would like me to move it to Psych/Psych.

[thedarkshade]

A matter of brain and imagination:rolleyes:!

 

EDIT: and after all, cross is quite a simple figure to be formed even in the sky!

[iNow]

Look, until someone said, "Hey, come look at the shapes in the clouds!" everyone at that party probably would have glanced upward and their brains would've said, "Clouds, cumulus, big, white, no rain". As soon as someone suggests there are other things to be seen in them, everyone's brains started reclassification. The cross would've been obvious to most (unless the mathematician at the party had seen it first and said, "Hey everybody, there's a big plus sign in the sky!"), but then someone else's brain (probably biased by the religious tone) found a demon's face. As soon as someone mentions it then everyone's brain looks for the demon, and will eventually find it (remember how badly the brain wants to classify information).

Bingo. I keep thinking of the face on Mars. Or, an old statement that always made us laugh in one of my psychology classes, "Quick! Whatever you do, DON'T think about the Statue of Liberty!"

 

 

Here's an interesting video (just over ten minutes) of Mike Shermer at TED discussing much of this psychological pattern matching:

 

[jryan]

 

Relax Tokyo! That's just a cloud!!