losfomot Posted March 5, 2004 Posted March 5, 2004 Hey people... I am wondering what makes up a magnetic field. What is this thing we cannot see, this 'force' that attracts and repels. *not 'what causes it?'... but 'what IS it?' I believe I read something fairly old that said the 'force particles' were photons of some kind?!?! Thanks
Crash Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 well from my humble view i thought is was when you get two electrons that do not spin oppiste were the spin 1/2 is not quite correct (like Fe) thus creating electrostatic repulsive or attractive forces, photons are virtual particles
losfomot Posted March 6, 2004 Author Posted March 6, 2004 see... your explaining the how but not the what.... my question is 'what physically ARE the repulsive and attractive forces?' You say 'electrostatic forces' what do you mean by that?
NSX Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 losfomot said in post # :'what physically ARE the repulsive and attractive forces?' When an object goes away from and towards another under no other forces.
Pinch Paxton Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 I know but I'm not starting another mass debate.
mooeypoo Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 If I got you right, losfomot, you're looking for info on Gravitons. I can't help you, I want info myself but am I right? 'cause this is the only type of "particles" I can think of that *are* gravity... ~moo
Pinch Paxton Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 Yikes I just though of a double meaning... I like to Mass Debate!!! OOOOerrr! Must put that in my siggy! LOL! Pincho.
JaKiri Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 mooeypoo said in post # :If I got you right, losfomot, you're looking for info on Gravitons. That's.... for gravity. Not Electromagnetics.
losfomot Posted March 6, 2004 Author Posted March 6, 2004 Right... gravitons are the (supposed) force particles for gravity that we haven't detected yet. But what about a magnetic field. What is the force particle of a magnetic field? Have we been able to detect and confirm this force particle? Or is the magnetic force particle still as mysterious as the graviton?
mooeypoo Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 Yah I thought you meant those.. and sorry I misread (err.. i can't seem to figure how, but.. appearantly I either did or I am stupid ;p ) wel... yah don't comment hehehe thanks, MrL, you're right, oops sorry. ~moo
Crash Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 There are so many elementary particles to choose from to suppose a electromagnetic force........anyway ive heard of no force particle for magnetics
JaKiri Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 Crash said in post # :There are so many elementary particles to choose from to suppose a electromagnetic force........anyway ive heard of no force particle for magnetics It's called the photon. You may have heard of it.
Crash Posted March 6, 2004 Posted March 6, 2004 Is just the ordinary Photon responsible for this? or Photoelectron.....isint this effect due to the light(particle) moving so fast between objects it creates an attraction
losfomot Posted March 8, 2004 Author Posted March 8, 2004 MrL_JaKiri said in post # : It's called the photon. You may have heard of it. Since you seem to know the answer... can I ask you to elaborate? Are virtual particles (photons) induced to appear by the aligned domains of a magnet? What exactly are these photons doing that causes an attraction or repulsion?
YT2095 Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 and by extension of this "It's called the photon. You may have heard of it." if a magnet is stationary then it`s a "DC" source of photons. DC used as an analogy as compared to photons that travel in a wave like visible light being an "AC" source, again by analogy. that does however raise a few questions! not least of which being, what supplies the power source for this photon emission?
YT2095 Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 oh yeah! and most certainly do I and why then hasn`t it weaponised to be the core of an EMP device would be another thing I`de like to know
Pinch Paxton Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 I'm biting my tongue, must not be tempted to say...w.... or to draw any pictures...LOL!
YT2095 Posted March 8, 2004 Posted March 8, 2004 likewise I`m just going to sit back and wait for mr_ls` reply, because if it`s TRUE then that presents a whole new way of thinking for me with regards to Magnets as being entirely "passive".
losfomot Posted March 13, 2004 Author Posted March 13, 2004 OK.. It looks like nobody REALLY knows. But photons don't really make sense to me as the force particle... what energy of photon are we talking about? I would guess that they must be high energy photons because a small magnetic seems to have a powerful magnetic field... gamma radiation? Isn't that bad for us? Wouldn't a geiger counter go nuts around magnets? Its certainly not near the visible spectrum since we can't see it and we don't feel any heat. What about longer wavelengths? Microwaves would cook our hands everytime we touch a magnet. Radio wavelength photons? Somehow I don't think Radio waves could be concentrated enough to create the magnetic effects we see. Besides can't almost all wavelengths be blocked with something like lead? You can't BLOCK a magnetic field. YT mentioned something about a "DC" source of photons. I am not sure what this means but if it eliminates the 'wave' half of the wave/particle duality then we are still left with a 'particle' photon which still (i don't think) can't penetrate something like lead. Thoughts?
YT2095 Posted March 13, 2004 Posted March 13, 2004 EM waves can indeed send a geiger counter "NUTS" as you say, I`ve made a post to this effect stating my observations many months ago, so I know what you mean personaly and not scientificaly, is see a magnets as a one way valve or conduit, that takes in some form of energy from one side and re-emits it from the other bvut a little ore active than just a passive valve, more akin to a lens. I don`t think a magnet has any inherant power of it`s own though, it`s just a one way lens for some form of energy that`s all around us and scattered in every direction, and channels it into a neat pathway North to South so to speak. )
Pinch Paxton Posted March 13, 2004 Posted March 13, 2004 What I find odd about magnets is the way that iron filings line up with gaps between them. It's the gaps that interest me, and I want to create a picture somehow that just shows the gaps, without the iron filings. Also, I would like to see a slow motion movie of the iron filings moving into their positions. Do they sweep from north to south? Do they move as a whole unit? Is there a difference in speed from top to bottom like a rotating wheel? Any answers to these questions? Pincho.
losfomot Posted March 13, 2004 Author Posted March 13, 2004 YT2095 said in post # :EM waves can indeed send a geiger counter "NUTS" as you say <p> Yes EM waves can make a geiger counter go nuts, but gamma rays are included in the spectrum of EM waves. What about a MAGNETIC FIELD such as that generated (for a lack of a better word) by a permanent magnet. Surely this does not set off a geiger counter.
YT2095 Posted March 14, 2004 Posted March 14, 2004 I`ve never noticed an perm mag have any influence on my particular Geiger counter, at least nothing that impares or distracts its function or accuracy
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