Objective global warming

[jduff]

Thanks for pointing out the exact date (27 Aug) when it got too icy to pass through.

Up till then it was Summer and you could sail there.

Which is what I said.

So it's hardly misrepresentation- hype perhaps, since it's not quite the pole..

Of course, the details of when you can sail how far North will depend on the weather.

The point remains that there's less ice than there used to be.

I am very happy to point that out. Why? Because you stated Summer. Which lasts til Sept 21st. August which is on average the hottest month of the year in the Northern Hemisphere is a part of Summer. August 27th the date of that article is still summer. Please do not cherry pick. Just like you tried to cherry pick what was actually said in the original article. While the arctic is still recovering from previous years of ice loss the Antarctic is breaking all time records. To help you understand, since you had to use sailing as a way to attempt a point(worthless). Here is the fullest and latest data on ice loss and ice extent. http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

 

Next time I would learn to do some data mining before actually trying to prove a point! Especially if you do not know what you really are talking about!

[swansont]

I am very happy to point that out. Why? Because you stated Summer. Which lasts til Sept 21st. August which is on average the hottest month of the year in the Northern Hemisphere is a part of Summer. August 27th the date of that article is still summer. Please do not cherry pick. Just like you tried to cherry pick what was actually said in the original article. While the arctic is still recovering from previous years of ice loss the Antarctic is breaking all time records. To help you understand, since you had to use sailing as a way to attempt a point(worthless). Here is the fullest and latest data on ice loss and ice extent. http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

 

Next time I would learn to do some data mining before actually trying to prove a point! Especially if you do not know what you really are talking about!

 

What we've got here is a failure to properly apply logic.

 

Stating that one can sail to the north pole in summer only requires that at some time during the summer, and by any one route, it can be done. What the statement does NOT claim is that it is possible at all times and/or by all routes.

 

Showing that several routes close at the end of August does not properly rebut the claim. You must show that all routes were blocked for the duration of summer, to show it to be false. And you didn't even come close.

 

However, you did provide a link to a site that has a graph showing the arctic ice is still well below its 1981-2010 average, despite its recovery from historic lows. Well below average. Let that sink in, while you ponder which position that's consistent with.

[John Cuthber]

Here is the fullest and latest data on ice loss and ice extent. http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

 

 

Thanks. I had a look and the first line is "This summer, Arctic sea ice loss was held in check by relatively cool and stormy conditions. As a result, 2013 saw substantially more ice at summer’s end, compared to last year’s record low extent. "

So it looks like (in spite of a relatively good year) they accept that

There was a record low of ice extent last year and they are working on a basis of ongoing loss of sea ice.

 

Thanks for citing the evidence which proves my point.

Up North, the sea ice is generally retreating year by year (except for last year- by some fluke).

[jduff]

 

 

However, you did provide a link to a site that has a graph showing the arctic ice is still well below its 1981-2010 average, despite its recovery from historic lows. Well below average. Let that sink in, while you ponder which position that's consistent with.

And the Antarctic? Why is it that you wont mention the Antarctic? Does it have a less significant role than the arctic? Let that sink in! While you try to support a position that is continually being proven false.. over and over... again!

[John Cuthber]

And the Antarctic? Why is it that you wont mention the Antarctic? Does it have a less significant role than the arctic? Let that sink in! While you try to support a position that is continually being proven false.. over and over... again!

Perhaps he didn't think he needed to mention the Antarctic because I had already done so.

I had said "It is true that the Antarctic ice is growing at the moment.

We know that, and we know why.

http://www.washingto...-in-antarctica/

so it doesn't in any way detract from the basic point."

[swansont]

And the Antarctic? Why is it that you wont mention the Antarctic? Does it have a less significant role than the arctic? Let that sink in! While you try to support a position that is continually being proven false.. over and over... again!

 

I didn't mention the Antarctic because I was focused on rebutting a specific claim of yours.

 

This isn't jazz. You don't listen to the "notes you don't play" and attach meaning to them.

[overtone]

 

 

. While the arctic is still recovering from previous years of ice loss the Antarctic is breaking all time records.

The Arctic is an ocean surrounded by land. The Antarctic is a land mass surrounded by ocean. They are both warming (higher air, land, and water temperatures), but the effects of the warming are different - there is a real possibility that warming air and ocean (as measured) will cause snowfall to increase dramatically in the interior of Antarctica, causing growth of the ice masses there, for example.

[ralfy]

To add to what was shared earlier:

 

 

From

 

http://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=47

 

For the long term, try the NAS final report discussion of Vostok data:

 

http://nas-sites.org/americasclimatechoices/sample-page/panel-reports/americas-climate-choices-final-report/

 

For skeptics, one can consider an independent study that they funded:

 

http://berkeleyearth.org/summary-of-findings

 

A news article regarding that:

 

"Climate skeptics perform independent analysis, finally convinced Earth is getting warmer"

 

http://arstechnica.com/science/2011/10/climate-skeptics-perform-independent-analysis-finally-convinced-earth-is-getting-warmer/

 

Also, re: the accuracy of the model:

 

"Why Curry, McIntyre, and Co. are Still Wrong about IPCC Climate Model Accuracy"

 

http://www.skepticalscience.com/curry-mcintyre-resist-ipcc-model-accuracy.html

[daphne2013]

I think the one reason is that many trees on the earth are disappeared, where a lot of old trees are now covered house.