Why we need outer space free (discuss)

[Realitycheck]

The nearest star system is only 27,023,167,690,243.2 miles away. If it did have any habitable planets, I like the part where the starship somehow gets up to a million mph, about 20 times faster than we can achieve now after slingshotting around a few planets and fast enough to get there in about 3,000 years. Upon entry into the Proxima Centauri system, you find a previously unknown asteroid system and end up slamming into a very small piece of iron at a million mph, obliterating your ship, totalling your entire investment in money and time.

[iNow]

Hi Nemanja,

 

The biggest point to consider is the challenges involved with going so far so fast. It takes light a long time to travel the distances you describe. I agree that it's a goal worthy of consideration and effort, but there are some significant challenges to be solved before we can make this feasible.

 

It's not that your end goal is an undesirable one, it's that you are being challenged on the methods you've described for reaching it.

 

Another point that has resonated with me is that we must change our approach to the way we care for the world we already have, instead of just transporting our bad habits to another celestial body.

 

 

Cheers.

[swansont]

But you've convinced me. To hell with curing cancer....to the stars!

 

Why does it have to be an either/or situation? There is a limit to how much money you can effectively spend on a research problem, limited by the number of lines of research and people available to do the research.

 

The FDA lies constantly, baby food contains small amounts of mercury because the FDA approves of very small doses being safe to humans.

 

Yes, because basically everything we eat will contain trace amounts of naturally occurring substances. Even organic foods will contain trace amounts of mercury and heavy metals, etc. Further, the chemical makeup matters. Most food you eat contains chlorine, which is <gasp> a poison gas — when it's a gas. Not when it's table salt.

 

Where exactly does the FDA claim that baby food contains absolutely no mercury?

[DrDNA]

Why does it have to be an either/or situation? There is a limit to how much money you can effectively spend on a research problem, limited by the number of lines of research and people available to do the research.

 

Personally, I don't think it does have to be either/or, but Eve, Sybil, Snoop, Neman, Sal, and whoever else is in inside there apparently do:

 

To achieve this though governments need to stop spending money in idle areas. Like drugs rehabs for people, maybe people should should drop bad habits.

 

But I think there are better funds to pull out of, such as solving cancer. A cure has already been found people, it's just not allowed out there by the government because of all the money they are raking in from cancer treatments, medicines, donations ect.

 

Ya I think we really need to stop spending money on things that dont lead to progress

 

Are you suggesting that we stop wasting money on drug rehab and divert that money, and money wasted on similar programs, to space exploration?

 

Yes with problems like global warming and terrorism and many other issues in the world. I believe most global powers turn a blind cheek to these issues because their only concerned about economics. I believe Continued spending in space exploration projects projects will in the long run satisfy their needs and and give sense of stability and grip. Which will make them turn to issues that are more important and humanitarian. A step in this direction I believe is to cut spending those programs DrDNA.

[cosmic-chris]

Everywhere you look there are problems in the world today ,drug addiction,cancer,global warming,exstinction of species, oil shortages ,food and water shortages in the third world the list is endless but only so many of these can be dealt with limited recources with money and political attitudes towards dealing with these and many other problems.

I don't think travelling into space for minerals would solve all the problems in the world and i don't think it would be very cheap either and thats what it would come down to how cheap and affordable it could be for the richer nations of the world.

[Snoopdogg]

To INow, no I really can't show site a source for all this. But my teacher that told me this years ago really knows her stuff. http://autismmedia.org/media10.html watch Julie Duffields videos. Her kid had reactions to the mercury in his vaccines and now has autism. The videos are quite sad really, but it's much sadder hearing her tell the stories to the class.

 

But...back on topic, space colonization would actually be a very difficult goal to achieve, but it's not impossible.

[DrDNA]

Autism is sad, and I would do nothing to try and make light of a situation involving autism, but to date, there has not been a positive correlation drawn between autism and vaccinations. Although there have been many attempts to do so.....

[Sayonara]

We have had many discussions on space colonisation and the problems faced by Kardashev-scale civilisations before, some of which make for very interesting reading.

 

I suggest using the search function to find those!

[Reaper]

To INow, no I really can't show site a source for all this. But my teacher that told me this years ago really knows her stuff. http://autismmedia.org/media10.html watch Julie Duffields videos. Her kid had reactions to the mercury in his vaccines and now has autism. The videos are quite sad really, but it's much sadder hearing her tell the stories to the class.

 

Oh my . I suggest you take a look at this site over here before you go off spreading that garbage around .

 

 

 

But...back on topic, space colonization would actually be a very difficult goal to achieve, but it's not impossible.

 

It's not so much that we don't have the technical capability but rather whether or not we can find worlds and bodies out there that can be suitable for permanent human habitation.

 

In our own solar system the only bodies for which we are actually actively planning on settling on are the moon, Mars, and some near-Earth asteroids. Titan is also being considered for possible human colonization (if not actually live there, then certainly establish some sort of base so that we could exploit it's resources).

 

How we are going to do this, well, that's a problem for my current generation to solve.... as far as I know some predict that we will be able to do it as early as 2030 to as late as 2200.

 

 

==================

 

As for interstellar colonization, I don't know when we will actually do that. However, there have been several ideas proposed as to how they could do this, ranging from using generation ships to "seeding" other planets to just relying on comets and asteroids across the galaxy.

 

Another idea I recently stumbled on is to freeze human embyos and ship them off to other worlds, so that they could be fertilized on site...

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

About vaccines and autism:

 

http://www.dbunked.com/pseudoscience/the-mmr-vaccine-and-autism

[Reaper]

We have had many discussions on space colonisation and the problems faced by Kardashev-scale civilisations before, some of which make for very interesting reading.

 

I suggest using the search function to find those!

 

 

There are problems with the Kardashev scale though, as it makes too many assumptions about the nature of extraterrestrial civilizations or space-faring species, along with the fact that its based on one data point (our own Earth).

 

 

I would suggest reading Evolving the Alien by Jack Cohen and Ian Stewart, as they cover the problems with it in that book.

[DrDNA]

Another idea I recently stumbled on is to freeze human embyos and ship them off to other worlds, so that they could be fertilized on site...

 

Wow. That would be different. But I don't understand how that would work at all because...

1. embryos are already fertilized and

2. if you meant unfertilized eggs, who are the semen donors on the receiving endgoing to be? and

3. how would they survive without mommys and daddys to feed, cloth, protect them, teach them basic survival skills, etc? talk about neglectful parenting!

[Reaper]

Wow. That would be different. But I don't understand how that would work at all because...

1. embryos are already fertilized and

2. if you meant unfertilized eggs, who are the semen donors on the receiving endgoing to be? and

3. how would they survive without mommys and daddys to feed, cloth, protect them, teach them basic survival skills, etc? talk about neglectful parenting!

 

1. See #2

2. Who else? There are already plenty of semen donors in this day and age, I'm sure there will be plenty in the future, and certainly when they actually do attempt to colonize interstellar space.

3. Use robots or some sort of sophisticated A.I. program to raise the first generation/initial colonists. Alternatively, you don't have to actually use up all the embryos when they arrive on the planet/colony. As for infrastructure, you can probably use von-Neumann probes to go to the planets and build it before they arrive, as that would make the colonization process a bit easier and safer....

[Sayonara]

There are problems with the Kardashev scale though, as it makes too many assumptions about the nature of extraterrestrial civilizations or space-faring species, along with the fact that its based on one data point (our own Earth).

 

I am not advocating the use of the K-scale though, am I? I am advocating reading the threads in which it is mentioned, because they are likely to contain discussions which are relevant to this thread. Like this one: http://www.scienceforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=22260

[JohnB]

Dr.DNA, read the book "The Songs of Distant Earth" by Arthur C. Clarke for a description of how this type of colonisation might be achieved.

But my teacher that told me this years ago really knows her stuff.

So if she's so knowledgeable in biochemistry and medicine, why is she teaching geometry?

 

*Back on topic*

Why the stars anyway? There are hundreds of worlds nearby with large amounts of raw materials available on them. Okay, they're small and cold but they're easier to get to than the stars.

 

My own take on this is simple. We must get off this rock. One good planet killer and the story of humanity ends.

 

We need a self supporting colony somewhere else as soon as possible. It would need a population of between 5,000-10,000 people to allow a large enough genetic base and must be able to survive for at least 100 years without support from earth.

 

It's called "Insurance".