Third Eye or Inner Eye

[supernova]

I hear some people talking about the third eye associated with visions or clairvoyance, is there any basis to that?

[Klaynos]

No science.

[MrMongoose]

This is a brain teaser?

[insane_alien]

well, we could vivisect a psychic and find out.

[iNow]

I hear some people talking about the third eye associated with visions or clairvoyance, is there any basis to that?

 

Many people experience things which they struggle to describe scientifically. There really is little current scientific evidence suggesting that these areas have the associations you describe. It's more a conscious experience than anything else, and those are very hard to define and test. The only "hard" basis of this is research into the pineal gland.

[Daecon]

There really is little current scientific evidence suggesting that these areas have the associations you describe.

 

Has there ever been ANY research into stuff like that or has it *always* been dismissed as mumbo-jumbo?

[JohnF]

Many years ago, probably about 30, my brother and I watched a programme on TV about sending "thought pulses" to people. The idea was that you looked, or stared, at the other person without them being aware of it whilst imagining a ball of light appear in you head. You then projected this ball of light, by thought, towards the other person which would make them look around to your direction.

 

We were quite amused by this idea and the both of us, plus a friend, decided to try this; we were clearly very bored. Anyway, after practising for a while we found it actually worked. In fact after about a week of practice we found that we could get each other to acknowledge "the pulse" with 100% accuracy. Receiving a pulse kind of felt like something touching the back of your head but was not very tangible.

 

Since we couldn't think of a practical application for this new "ability" we eventually got bored with it and stopped testing each other.

 

Does anyone have any sort of explanation as to how this could have worked?

 

Perhaps this thread should be in "Pseudoscience and Speculations".

[Phi for All]

Many years ago, probably about 30, my brother and I watched a programme on TV about sending "thought pulses" to people. The idea was that you looked, or stared, at the other person without them being aware of it [emphasis added] whilst imagining a ball of light appear in you head. You then projected this ball of light, by thought, towards the other person which would make them look around to your direction.

This seems testable. The part I bolded seems to be the hard part. If someone is participating in the test and they know you will randomly attempt to make them turn their head, won't their anticipation throw off any precision you need to ensure that it's your thought pulse reaching them?

 

We were quite amused by this idea and the both of us, plus a friend, decided to try this; we were clearly very bored. Anyway, after practising for a while we found it actually worked. In fact after about a week of practice we found that we could get each other to acknowledge "the pulse" with 100% accuracy. Receiving a pulse kind of felt like something touching the back of your head but was not very tangible.

Did you attempt this from any distance further than line-of-sight? Were you sneaking up on each other in order to attempt this unobserved? Perhaps other factors enabled your subject to sense your presence, and since you were practicing this ability it just seemed as if you felt the touch on the back of your head?

Since we couldn't think of a practical application for this new "ability" we eventually got bored with it and stopped testing each other.

Wow, how could you get bored with something that you became so accurate with?

Does anyone have any sort of explanation as to how this could have worked?

I've often wondered if humans have a latent telepathic ability that is dampened by our other senses and our "superior" communication skills. Lack of evidence isn't evidence of lack but there have been so many tests....

 

Skeptically, I'd be more inclined to say there was other sensory input. Rooms feel different when there is another person in it, even if you can't see them. Sensitivity to EM fields, perhaps? Or just the fact that ordinary sounds are different when they bounce off another person who just snuck into the room?

Perhaps this thread should be in "Pseudoscience and Speculations".

Agreed. Moved.

[JohnF]

This seems testable. The part I bolded seems to be the hard part. If someone is participating in the test and they know you will randomly attempt to make them turn their head, won't their anticipation throw off any precision you need to ensure that it's your thought pulse reaching them?

 

It did at first. It was difficult not to end up laughing at each others anticipation of what was going to happen.

 

Did you attempt this from any distance further than line-of-sight? Were you sneaking up on each other in order to attempt this unobserved? Perhaps other factors enabled your subject to sense your presence, and since you were practicing this ability it just seemed as if you felt the touch on the back of your head?

 

Line of sight was a requirement according to the programme. We were all in the same room, about 15 feet apart.

 

Wow, how could you get bored with something that you became so accurate with?

 

All I can say is that is what happened. I suppose everyone, including me, thinks that to discover a new ability would be life changing but in the end it all became too easy. Since we couldn't think of a use for it we just left it alone. Although it may be useful to be able to do it to a stranger we did feel that our ability was tied to us practicing together.

 

Skeptically, I'd be more inclined to say there was other sensory input. Rooms feel different when there is another person in it, even if you can't see them. Sensitivity to EM fields, perhaps? Or just the fact that ordinary sounds are different when they bounce off another person who just suck into the room?

Agreed. Moved.

 

There were always three of us in the room. Usually, one received, another sent whilst the third sat in site of both of us. The receiver could not see either of the other two. Although at first we tried it in a quiet room we soon found that TV sound or music had no effect. Eventually we tried it with two receivers where the sender just picked who to send to. Only the correct receiver responded. The receiver was picked by the sender rolling a dice; even for one, odd for the other. The dice was left in the middle of the room so that the receivers good see it when they turned.

 

From our point of view it just became something we could do but with nothing we could do with it.

[Phi for All]

From our point of view it just became something we could do but with nothing we could do with it.

IMO, the next logical step would be to have the same three guys practice again to get the feel of it. Then you should try the experiment while separated by distance (beyond line of sight). Perhaps tell the two others you will be sending a thought pulse to them while at work or school between 9am and Noon. Roll the dice to see who to pick and choose the time equally randomly. Then see if they pick up the thought pulse and when.

 

The practical application? You'll never need to pay for a pager or text messaging again. One thought pulse and your friend knows to call you.

[iNow]

There's also the idea of perceptual salience, in that you're more likely to remember positive hits than negative ones.

 

 

 

 

 

Has there ever been ANY research into stuff like that or has it *always* been dismissed as mumbo-jumbo?

 

It's not dismissed because people don't like it. It's dismissed because it doesn't generally hold up to empirical scrutiny.

 

The first thought that came to my mind when you asked the question about research was a guy named Rupert Sheldrake. However, his work is not the creme-de-la-creme of psychocognition by any means.

 

 

Here's a link to his site if you're curious:

 

http://sheldrake.org/homepage.html

 

 

 

He shares some interesting experiments you can try on your own.

 

 

I found that I wasn't so absorbed by thoughts on this topic, nor did I take them as seriuosly, once I got out of college and stopped smoking pot.

[JohnF]

IMO, the next logical step would be to have the same three guys practice again to get the feel of it. Then you should try the experiment while separated by distance (beyond line of sight). Perhaps tell the two others you will be sending a thought pulse to them while at work or school between 9am and Noon. Roll the dice to see who to pick and choose the time equally randomly. Then see if they pick up the thought pulse and when.

 

The practical application? You'll never need to pay for a pager or text messaging again. One thought pulse and your friend knows to call you.

 

That's an interesting idea but one of them, my brother, lives 40 miles away so we don't get to see each other much now. The other, a friend, we havn't seen for about 15 years.

 

I might try this experiment with my wife if she's willing to put down her laptop for a while.

 

As for your practical application, we didn't have mobile phones in the late 70's so the idea would never have occured to us. Now though, it may save me £1 or so per year.

 

You could always try it yourself. If I remember correctly we started to get good results after about 8 or so hours of practice.

[Mr Skeptic]

Many years ago, probably about 30, my brother and I watched a programme on TV about sending "thought pulses" to people. The idea was that you looked, or stared, at the other person without them being aware of it whilst imagining a ball of light appear in you head. You then projected this ball of light, by thought, towards the other person which would make them look around to your direction.

 

We were quite amused by this idea and the both of us, plus a friend, decided to try this; we were clearly very bored. Anyway, after practising for a while we found it actually worked. In fact after about a week of practice we found that we could get each other to acknowledge "the pulse" with 100% accuracy. Receiving a pulse kind of felt like something touching the back of your head but was not very tangible.

 

Since we couldn't think of a practical application for this new "ability" we eventually got bored with it and stopped testing each other.

 

Does anyone have any sort of explanation as to how this could have worked?

 

Perhaps this thread should be in "Pseudoscience and Speculations".

 

Have you made sure that there were not other methods whereby you could have guessed when to turn the head? Perhaps you could detect when he came into the room, or you both figured out how to synchronize your timing? Perhaps you could sense the anticipation of your brother (there was a "mathematically gifted" horse that did this).

 

Perhaps you can repeat it by controlling for various transmission channels. That is, provide thermal insulation, soundproofing, electromagnetism proofing, roll dice to see when you should send the pulse, visual obfuscation (perhaps diffuse light is detected), etc, to see how the communication is done (if it really is). Now I would expect proper telepathy to be EM based, but who knows.

 

What I think is likelier is that somehow you can sense your brother's anticipation, perhaps subconsciously hearing an accelerated heartbeat, or that you somehow synchronized when to turn the head and send the pulse (hence the training time). It would be interesting if you could do some further testing with that.

[Klaynos]

All double blind tests I've ever heard about investigating this kind of thing has shown no results beyond that which is predicted by statistics...

[Mr Skeptic]

There's also the idea of perceptual salience, in that you're more likely to remember positive hits than negative ones.

 

Oh, I forgot that one. Got to keep track with paper and pencil.

[jeremyhfht]

I hear some people talking about the third eye associated with visions or clairvoyance, is there any basis to that?

 

Lets assume your brain is capable of such things. The reason the third eye is situated there is because a lot of people experience muscle spasms or tensing in that area when they're focusing on something heavily. It can also happen with high brain activity (I think).

 

Other "chakras" can be explained in a similar manner. I think it's fascinating how ancient cultures attributed solid meaning and placement to various organs throughout the body simply by analyzing their emotions and senses.

 

Anyway. Visions and similar things would require a high amount of brain activity and focus, which would cause you to tense in that area.

[JohnF]

We didn't try this as some sort of formal experiment; it was just a curiosity to us. We have always assumed that there was a simple and natural explanation for what we could do. We did our best to eliminate things like seeing a reflection or hearing a sound but it was certainly not a controlled experiment.

 

With regard to accuracy. Whenever we decided to try it we would get some false results at first. After a few attempts we then started to find we could receive every time. After a dozen or so hits we would go and do something else instead. So the 100% would be from when we were getting it right until we got fed up with doing it.

 

One interesting point though was that none of us could send a 'pulse' to the other two at the same time; only ever to the one we were focused on.

[Daecon]

When I was in school, me and my best friend played hangman, and I guessed the whole word/phrase/ABBA song title correctly first time, without even picking a letter beforehand, this happened five times in a row. It amused us.

 

I've also displayed precognitive knowledge (much higher than I would attribute to sheer chance) when playing Final Fantasy VII on my Playstation.

 

I also have a crystal pendulum that I can "will" to change direction, increase/decrease speed, etc. without noticing any change or movement in my hand or fingers.

 

My housemate often says things just while I'm think of them, but before I can say them out loud myself. I've lost count how many times I've said "I was just about to say that!"

 

I'll have to see if I can blast my housemate with a ball of thought energy when I see him next. Maybe I can suggest a thought, like Matt Parkman form Heroes. {Make yummy chicken fajitas kthxbai.}

[Phi for All]

I'll have to see if I can blast my housemate with a ball of thought energy when I see him next. Maybe I can suggest a thought, like Matt Parkman form Heroes. {Make yummy chicken fajitas kthxbai.}

A truly powerful telepath could blast the ball *and* cook the fajitas with the same thought.

[Daecon]

Would that be telepathy or telekinesis?

 

Maybe psychokinesis?

 

Psychopathy?

[jeremyhfht]

Many people seem to argue against the possibility of telekinetics and the like because of hollywood. It seems as though everyone is stuck with the image of people throwing buildings about with their mind, rather than a more realistic version.

 

Let me paint a more realistic version. In the reality of it (assuming it exists), it's probably some cognitive manipulation of some part of our body. Probably something to do with our magnetic field surrounding our body. This would be most likely due to an "accident" with evolution. Much as it was an accident that we became so intelligent, through that intelligence we've gained cognitive control over a number of autonomous functions (some people can learn to almost stop their heart).

 

So assuming it's controlling a part of us that allows us to interact with things on a small scale, it's not so much controlling things with only your mind as it is using your mind to control a part of you. In the same way telepathy might work, excluding the other explanations (which would be difficult to do).

 

That said, assuming the above explanation is true in any form, the MAXIMUM anyone could CURRENTLY control this would be very small objects with very high amounts of concentration.

 

As for other abilities/beliefs like telepathy/past lives/etc, that's probably the result of average people attempting to explain things they don't understand. Which is typical, as it's how religion was created. Although I do have an explanation for visions, but it deals with the complex nature of dreams.

 

The most accurate "visions" we have tend to be in our dreams. This is because in our dreams, our brain is allowed free reign to think of anything and everything. Even on levels we, consciously, can not because of various mental blocks, dogmas, or emotions with various things. The visions are not so much accurate predictions of the future, as they are our brain using its full capability to calculate probabilities. In the same sense we can dream out an entire lifetime, we can spend an entire "lifetime" in sleep calculating the most accurate outcome.

 

And there you have it. That is also why most visions aren't always exact. Since they're only probable calculations of the future based on input we've received out entire lives.

 

ALL of this, is the result of us being "too intelligent". An accident from evolution. So now you have a hypothetical explanation that brings the paranormal down to a more realistic level, and a mechanism through our intelligence and cognitive "power".

[Edtharan]

In New Zealand there is a Lizard (the Tuatara IIRC) with a vetigial 3rd eye. It is little more than a light sensitive patch of skin covered by scales. However, this does not give it any psychic powers.

 

This would be most likely due to an "accident" with evolution.

Actually evolution would be an argument against any psychic powers existing.

 

You must remember, under most circumstances, the greatest selection pressure on an organism comes not from predators (or prey), but from members of the organism's own species.

 

If you think about it, which groups would pose the greatest challenge to an organism's chance of mating and food? The answer: Members of the Organism's same species.

 

This is important for the next bit.

 

If you have two siblings competeing for food and mates, then as their genes are closer than any others of the same species, then any small advantage that one sibling has over the other (and can pass on) will give that sibling and all it's decendants a greater advantage (and thus more offspring).

 

For a population of organisms to remain stable, every mateing pair must produce exactly 2 offspring that make it to adult hood (and successfully breed). If an organism gives it's offspring even a slightly increased chance (say 2.001 successful offspring make it to adult hood as against just 2), over many genreations this leads to a massive increase population leves decened from that advantaged pair.

 

So, any small advantage, over the course of many generations, is exponetially increased and in a relativly homoginious population (equal breeding success), then if any of those animals developed any form of psychic powers, then that would give them a significant advantage.

 

As these organisms have an advantage, over time their genes would come to dominate that species gene pool. That is: Over time all members of that species would develop psychic powers.

 

Then, any increased effectivness of those powers would give that creature an advantage and the whole cycle starts all over again.

 

Look at how quickly resistance to pesticies and poisons and deseases develop in organisms. It has been less than 20 years since the Calisi virus was introduced to the rabbit populations in Australia in an attempt to control the population, they are already starting to develop a degree of immunity to the virus.

 

How fast would a mutation that allowed them to manipulate small objetcs (virus particles?) spread through the population. Or what about being able to predict where predators are going to be (being able to predict the future). Or be able to send "messages" through pure thought (could be used to warn of a nearby predator without revealing sender's location to the predator).

 

The fact that we haven't been able to find any overt (as in a widespread ability) evidence of any psychic power in an organism (including humans), in light of how evolution works, seems to indicate that psychic powers don't exist.

 

Anyway, after practising for a while we found it actually worked. In fact after about a week of practice we found that we could get each other to acknowledge "the pulse" with 100% accuracy. Receiving a pulse kind of felt like something touching the back of your head but was not very tangible.

 

Since we couldn't think of a practical application for this new "ability" we eventually got bored with it and stopped testing each other.

At 100% accuracy, ther are many, many things that such an ability could be used for (winning at poker for one ).

 

You could send a coded message using morse code (long and short gaps between pulses), and from that any text message could therefore be transmitted. Such secure communication systems would be an invaluable ability in many undertakings (even leagal and ethical ones).

 

Since we couldn't think of a use for it we just left it alone.

At the very least you could develop a stage show and make millions.

 

If you could really do this and do it wish 100% accuracy as you claim, then surly this idea of a stage show would have occurred.

 

There are magicians out there that are raking in the money and they have to resort to trickery. If you could do it legit, then you would be the most famous of all magicians.

 

Let me know when your opening night is and I'll believe you.

[jeremyhfht]

In New Zealand there is a Lizard (the Tuatara IIRC) with a vetigial 3rd eye. It is little more than a light sensitive patch of skin covered by scales. However, this does not give it any psychic powers.

 

I hope you're joking. The "third eye" is a very ancient metaphorical chakra. Not a literal thing.

 

Actually evolution would be an argument against any psychic powers existing.

 

[...]

 

How fast would a mutation that allowed them to manipulate small objetcs (virus particles?) spread through the population. Or what about being able to predict where predators are going to be (being able to predict the future). Or be able to send "messages" through pure thought (could be used to warn of a nearby predator without revealing sender's location to the predator).

 

The fact that we haven't been able to find any overt (as in a widespread ability) evidence of any psychic power in an organism (including humans), in light of how evolution works, seems to indicate that psychic powers don't exist.

 

In fact that is a good argument proving that evolution IS the driving cause of it. It's why we're evolving towards furthering our intelligence, which will as a result further our abilities, which will further our survival abilities.

 

You are apparently mistakenly looking at it like a separate entity. When in fact it is directly tied to our conscious minds ability to control its automatic functions. Which means it is in fact evolving as we are. We're just "at the beginning". Your inane request that it should have happened faster is like asking "why didn't we evolve the ability to consciously attack problems we know we have?". Oh we might get there one day. Just not anytime soon.

 

Remember that we only started to begin civilizations ten thousand years ago, we're still very young as far as cognitive evolution is concerned. It takes millions of years. It might be faster if it WERE a mutation, but as well all know mutations involving the brain aren't so nice-nice. We're evolving it the old fashioned way.

 

Also, comparing it to rabbits and immunities is a bit...um...wrong? Your brain and your immune system are two very different things. Your immune system is evolved to adapt quickly, while your brain is...much more complex.

[Klaynos]

Many people seem to argue against the possibility of telekinetics and the like because of hollywood. It seems as though everyone is stuck with the image of people throwing buildings about with their mind, rather than a more realistic version.

 

Let me paint a more realistic version. In the reality of it (assuming it exists), it's probably some cognitive manipulation of some part of our body. Probably something to do with our magnetic field surrounding our body. This would be most likely due to an "accident" with evolution. Much as it was an accident that we became so intelligent, through that intelligence we've gained cognitive control over a number of autonomous functions (some people can learn to almost stop their heart).

 

So assuming it's controlling a part of us that allows us to interact with things on a small scale, it's not so much controlling things with only your mind as it is using your mind to control a part of you. In the same way telepathy might work, excluding the other explanations (which would be difficult to do).

 

That said, assuming the above explanation is true in any form, the MAXIMUM anyone could CURRENTLY control this would be very small objects with very high amounts of concentration.

 

As for other abilities/beliefs like telepathy/past lives/etc, that's probably the result of average people attempting to explain things they don't understand. Which is typical, as it's how religion was created. Although I do have an explanation for visions, but it deals with the complex nature of dreams.

 

The most accurate "visions" we have tend to be in our dreams. This is because in our dreams, our brain is allowed free reign to think of anything and everything. Even on levels we, consciously, can not because of various mental blocks, dogmas, or emotions with various things. The visions are not so much accurate predictions of the future, as they are our brain using its full capability to calculate probabilities. In the same sense we can dream out an entire lifetime, we can spend an entire "lifetime" in sleep calculating the most accurate outcome.

 

And there you have it. That is also why most visions aren't always exact. Since they're only probable calculations of the future based on input we've received out entire lives.

 

ALL of this, is the result of us being "too intelligent". An accident from evolution. So now you have a hypothetical explanation that brings the paranormal down to a more realistic level, and a mechanism through our intelligence and cognitive "power".

 

This would all be testable and show up regularly on double blind tests, there have been LOTS done, none have show anything that isn't accountable by statistical luck!

[jeremyhfht]

I've seen a few of the type of "tests" they do. It's as though they're purposefully doing it wrong. For telekinetics at least. I make no explanation for telepathy or other abilities. The entire point of my explanation was to explain the possible development of both visions and telekinetics.

 

NONE of my explanations give any excuses for people claiming to be able to "see the future" or such nonsense you see commercialized. I attempt to explain the possible emergence of very LIMITED abilities that are well within reality.

 

I also give no excuse to the large number of "psion communities" and other pseudoscientific 13-year-olds. They're still idiots, and they're still wrong.

 

I thought of a plausible method to experiment with some small telekinetics ability. Explained below:

 

If you wish to experiment, you could go down a lengthy road of attempting to move a light paper "pinwheel" (commonly seen on many "psion" websites and communities). The only way to prove it's you doing it, is to move it both ways on command rapidly. Using some sort of obstruction to exclude external sources isn't scientific, because the substance responsible for "telekinetics" could be blocked by it.

 

To compensate for the lack of ability to exclude external sources that way, the only plausible method is to attempt to become "adept". Spin the pinwheel left or right or command, and do it continuously "with your mind".

 

IF the pinwheel only moves in one direction, or if it moves very slowly without any conscious control on your part, chances are it's not you moving it. It excludes all external sources until you'd be moving it rapidly on command (and no external source could do that. Not one that you wouldn't feel, anyway).

 

The reason most other attempts do it "wrong" is because they normally use some sort of obstruction to exclude external causes, such as glass dome. This ends up making a stupid situation where people think they're moving it by placing their hand on the glass (creating heat, which can move the pinwheel just a little).

 

Other external sources are excluded in my method, because the smaller ones (such as changes in heat) that cause light movement are ignored. While heavier ones can be noticed by you (a gust of wind, for example). All the while making sure whatever causes the movement "telepathically" isn't blocked.

 

If this isn't scientific, I'd like an explanation as to why not.

 

P.S: Since I hypothesize that this is caused by the conscious mind controlling an autonomous function that normally isn't used, I believe it requires a lot of focus. Learning practices such as meditation can help, because through that focus allows better control over such functions (this is how people can slow their hearts to a near stop).

 

This "experiment" isn't suggested for those that want immediate evidence due to the sheer time which it can probably take. Hell, I haven't really bothered experimenting. I just devised a method that should allow for objective experiments.