The Effects of Modernization

[vampares]

It is said that what killed the American Indians was not warring with the settlers but the alteration of their natural lifestyle, living off the land, as opposed to the agrarian lifestyle imposed upon them. For instance, the corn which they grew did not have enough calcium.

 

Nutrition and Physical Degeneration by Weston A. Price

 

That the problem of mass degeneration constitutes one of the most alarming problems of our modernized cultures is demonstrated by the urgency of appeals that are being made by students in national and international affairs.

 

 

Weston A. Price studies, firsthand, the effects of "modernization". He draw links between nutrition of the modern (the contemporary 1930's) world (ports of call) and birth defects and other growth problems. He looks for these effects in not only humans but farm animals as well. Modernized living is preventing us from "living in harmony with Nature's laws".

 

Studies like this one are the foundations of vitamin theory.

 

I am interested in analysis of this this work as a paradigm.

[Pangloss]

We've come a long way since the American settlers. So how come we haven't been wiped out? Doesn't the reality of modern science actually indicate the opposite of what you suggest -- that people are healthier, live longer, grow stronger than they did a century ago?

[CaptainPanic]

Interestingly, it has been said that the Dutch, and some other Europeans are now taller than Americans.

 

However, it has also been said that the Dutch are no longer getting taller. The current generation might be the "tall generation". A trend has been observed which suggests that the maximum is reached. It is attributed to the food crops that are grown to have a high mass, but not necessarily contain a lot of healthy components (such as vitamins, or other essential chemicals). Many state that apples and tomatoes nowadays are looking better, more shiny, but are in fact more watery than ever.

 

Source of the Dutch being the tallest

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-2577471,00.html

 

Source of the Dutch reaching the max. length. (unfortunately, it's in Dutch )

http://www.nu.nl/news/1380578/10/rss/Nederlander_groeit_nauwelijks_meer.html

[dichotomy]

Doesn't the reality of modern science actually indicate the opposite of what you suggest -- that people are healthier, live longer, grow stronger than they did a century ago?

 

I think the last I heard is that people do live longer, but the last 15 to 20 years of their extended lives are not healthier. They are generally in poor health, heavily medicated and inactive due to poor health. Science is keeping people alive longer, but their quality of life is very dubious.

[Mr Skeptic]

Well, I'm pretty sure that we now understand nutrition much better than we did a few hundred years ago. People know what vitamins and minerals they need, and can learn from what to get them (sometimes the side of the box says that), we can always add supplements to foods (like vitamin D milk), or take vitamin pills. There's little reason for anyone to suffer a vitamin/mineral defficiency nowadays.

[Pangloss]

The point of the OP seems to be learning the lessons of history. What is history teaching us in this case? The OP poster seems to be saying that the lesson of history is "modernization is bad for our health". I don't think that lesson is supported by the evidence. For every example of McDonald's Happy Meals or lead poisoning there are ten miracle drugs or land fertilization techniques.

 

This is also one of those interesting areas where the progressive agenda conflicts with basic scientific reasoning. An example is the "quality of life" argument shown in a post above, which never seems to quite be quanfitiable. How convenient.

 

What's more likely is that as life expectency has gone up, deaths due to what would have been obscure reasons a hundred years ago have risen to the top of the statistical heap, not because more people are, say, getting cancer, but because fewer people are dying of factory accidents or lead poisoning in their food.

 

So rather than punishing ourselves with moody remonstrations and grand gestures like lamenting "modernization", doesn't it make more sense to modernize further? Since, after all, it seems to be working so well?

 

I'm thinking this thread belongs in Pseudoscience, btw. Convince me it doesn't.

[swansont]

I'm thinking this thread belongs in Pseudoscience, btw. Convince me it doesn't.

 

Nay, I think it belongs in speculations.

 

But seriously, I agree — unless someone can come up with some actual data to substantiate their claims. While undoubtedly some sick people are kept alive much longer with generally poor quality of life, can anyone quantify this in any meaningful fashion? Think of counterexamples, like hip or knee replacement surgery, that definitely improve the quality of life.

[vampares]

I'm thinking this thread belongs in Pseudoscience, btw. Convince me it doesn't.

 

I'm not saying it isn't flawed. I think the author makes hypothesis that are not entirely accurate.

 

It is a paradigm, however (the origins of scientific advancement are not evaluated at the release of each edition of a text book). It is a revelation that has had significant impact on not only science but . . .

 

Many approaches are taken, there are several forks in mankinds progress on the issue.

 

1950's was the decade of the Cape Cod and the Ranch home. Virtue is outside the cities. (yeah weird, I know)

 

Wholewheat bread, juicers, lead paint.

 

Ever hear "If I can't pronounce it, don't want in my ____."

 

1960's was the decade of the Granola Hippy. This movement eventually gave rise to the "Health Food Store". Organic foods now are finding their way into grocery stores. I personally have a choice between either organic or ordinary versions of most products I buy.

 

Ted Kaczynski, AKA The Unibomber, lived in a cabin in the middle of nowhere, with no electricity, and fashion bombs out of pine cones, mason jars and a piece of old mahogany. Not the best example, but there are still people out there in the woods -- we just don't ever hear from them. Freedom fighters, mountain men.

 

He probably went crazy trying to figure out where the vitamins were in the State Park!

 

---

 

The anti-paradigm (OK maybe you guys are bias a little? Don't want to kick off an old Dog?) is the Sci-Fi future concept that allowed them to slip plastics by us. Plastics would ultimately take over the 1970's. JFK and NASA are the clinchers here. Sci-Fi actually delivered on many of it's promises.

 

---

 

I had this girlfriend who was a lesbian and a vegetarian. People would admire her long nails. When asked, she would say "it's because I don't eat meat".

 

I go to the pet store. I ask the lady "do you carry any vegetarian cat food?"

She says "cats can only digest meat. If they don't have it, they will die." I'm not making this up!

 

---

 

It' more than just braces and a tooth brush we are talking about.

 

Club feet and cleft lip.

 

If I were to ask you what are the origins of these -- what causes it? Meat?

[swansont]

I go to the pet store. I ask the lady "do you carry any vegetarian cat food?"

She says "cats can only digest meat. If they don't have it, they will die." I'm not making this up!

 

I believe that you're not making it up. It's awkwardly stated, but is has an element of fact — it's not that cats can only digest meat, but they do require it. "Vegetarian cat food" is an oxymoron.

 

http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/taurine.php

"Taurine is an amino acid formally known as 2-Aminoethanesulfonic Acid with the chemical formula: C2H7NO3S.

Taurine is an essential amino acid for the cat, which means that the cat can not synthesize sufficient Taurine from other amino acids. Humans and dogs, for example, synthesize Taurine from the amino acids Methionine and Cystine.

 

Preformed Taurine is only available from animal tissue, and high concentrations of Taurine are found in the heart muscle, skeletal muscles, brain and eyes of mammals, as well as the meat from clams and oysters."

[Sisyphus]

I think the last I heard is that people do live longer, but the last 15 to 20 years of their extended lives are not healthier. They are generally in poor health, heavily medicated and inactive due to poor health. Science is keeping people alive longer, but their quality of life is very dubious.

 

I contest that claim. If you give it any thought whatsoever, you have to agree that medical science has the capacity to dramatically reduce suffering and increase quality of life over one's whole life, not just at the end. But what about the end? I agree that the last years of one's life tend to be relatively "low quality," but I also think that has always been the case. The only difference is that now, those last years happen later. What would have once been decrepit old age is now merely middle age. And as for what is now decrepit old age, well, I guess you're free to reject medical science when the time comes, but I think you'll find that your life would be not just shorter but also quite a bit more unpleasant without it.

[Pangloss]

Moved to Pseudoscience and Speculations with an expiring redirect from the original location.

[dichotomy]

I contest that claim. If you give it any thought whatsoever, you have to agree that medical science has the capacity to dramatically reduce suffering and increase quality of life over one's whole life, not just at the end. But what about the end? I agree that the last years of one's life tend to be relatively "low quality," but I also think that has always been the case. The only difference is that now, those last years happen later. What would have once been decrepit old age is now merely middle age. And as for what is now decrepit old age, well, I guess you're free to reject medical science when the time comes, but I think you'll find that your life would be not just shorter but also quite a bit more unpleasant without it.

 

I think the program I was watching was saying that - "Sure, people live longer, but they live a longer span of time in suffering old age". Instead of just living a shorter span of time in suffering "old age", and then dieing.