Kosovo is getting its independence:D

[thedarkshade]

It's been nine years since war ended here (in Kosovo) and three years of tiring negotiations with the serbians which turned out to be a complete failure. The Security Council did not manage to solve the issue of Kosovo since Russia contradicted vigorously to support the independence of Kosovo, and now it seems like everything is coming to a happy end!

 

On the 17th of this month we expect from our parliament to declare Kosovo's independence and soon after a big big number of countries are expected to accept our independence. IT"S COMING TRUE! I can't believe it! If you guys only had the possibility to see the emotions that are living among us! It's an absolutely wonderful situation when everyone is getting ready to celebrate this act on a massive and unseen way. It is the first time on the history of our nation that we become independent. Kosova will become the newest country in the world!

 

What do you guys think about this act? And what do you think the reactions of Serbia and Russia be after we have declared independence?

[iNow]

That's very cool, shade. I'm happy to see that a successful nation is being built somewhere. Congratulations. You should be proud.

[CDarwin]

Didn't a hardliner just get through getting elected President in Serbia, though?

[thedarkshade]

Thanks iNow! I truly am proud, since this is something that we have fully deserved!

 

And no Darwin, fortunately Nikolic didn't make it. Although that couldn't influence our status issue much!

[CDarwin]

Apparently the Serbians still aren't happy, though, nor is Russia.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7244333.stm

[thedarkshade]

That was expected, although nobody expected such strong support for Serbia by Russia. And I saw Putin's speech and to tell you the truth I was breath-taken! It is truly hard to believe how can they still insist for Kosovo to be part of Serbia when the indications are very very clear that Kosovo is going to get it's independence this Sunday, and the next day over a 100 countries in Security Council are expected to accept our independence!

 

But the funny thing happened today. Serbia called an assembly in Security Council requesting it to contradict the independence of Kosovo. How can SC possibly do that when the independence has not yet been declared, and our parliament has not yet given an official date? It is indeed hard to understand the slavic mentality!:roleyes:

[CDarwin]

Hopefully Russia won't go invading Germany for Serbia this time around.

 

Is it possible that Russia might use it's hard stance as a bargaining chip to gain some ground on issues like the ones Putin alluded to in the former USSR? I'm sure he'd like some kind of UN pressure on Georgia over South Ossetia.

[PhDP]

Congratulations.

 

We in Quebec never had the guts to do it.

[thedarkshade]

Is it possible that Russia might use it's hard stance as a bargaining chip to gain some ground on issues like the ones Putin alluded to in the former USSR? I'm sure he'd like some kind of UN pressure on Georgia over South Ossetia.

Well that's the problem. There are some areas near Russia which in a way are in the same conditions like Kosovo, but the issue of Kosovo it treated as a special case. So if the status of Kosovo is solved, there will be a tendency of doing the same thing in those areas too, which goes not for the good of Russia and this I think is the main problem that Russia strongly contradicts the independence of Kosovo, by saying that it is not a special case.

 

And thanks Phil! The act of independence is truly the best historical moment that can happen to a nation!

 

 

EDIT (14.02.2007): People, We Are Making The History! This Definitely Is The Best Thing That Has Ever Happened To Our Nation! 4 Hours From Now, Our Independence Will Be Declared! Our Prime Has Already Announced A Parliament Assembly In Which The Independence Will Be Declared.

 

I Simply Cannot Find The Words The Describe The Emotions That Live Here Today! Our Dream Is Finally Coming True And I Am Proud To Be Part Of The History.

 

From Tomorrow, I Will Be A Citizen Of The Official And Internationally Recognized :

 

INDEPENDENT KOSOVA

 

edit (19:00): AND WE DID IT WE DID IT WE DID IT:D:D:D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7249034.stm

[CDarwin]

Now you've just got to work on that 40% unemployment and all the angry Serbs you've got in your territory.

[bombus]

Kosovan independence is the most stupid, dangerous, short-sighted and out-dated solution to the problem one can imagine.

 

It has created an illegal state right in the heart of Europe.

 

A new Israel with all the same problems.

 

Countless dollars will be needed to protect it, as well as countless lives.

 

It could end in nuclear war - no joke.

[ecoli]

 

Countless dollars will be needed to protect it, as well as countless lives.

It's their state, let them defend it.

[bombus]

It's their state, let them defend it.

 

USA has already pledged to protect them. That means $$$.

[PhDP]

...but Kosovo was already indepedent, not on paper, but in practice. Why would the U.S. (or the U.N.) need to invest more money now ? The reason why the U.S. support the independece of Kosovo is simply because reconciliation was impossible, and the statu quo would not have lead to peace.

 

Nuclear war ?? It's just nonsense. Putin isn't a genius, but he's not THAT crazy.

 

It's their state, let them defend it.

 

What do you mean ? What if they can't defend it ?

[ecoli]

What do you mean ? What if they can't defend it ?

If they can't defend it, then they aren't independent.

 

I have no problem with them asking for outside help (from the US, for example) but what's in it for us?

[Pangloss]

Kosovan independence is the most stupid, dangerous, short-sighted and out-dated solution to the problem one can imagine.

 

It has created an illegal state right in the heart of Europe.

 

Why is it illegal? Just because Russia and China don't like it?

[thedarkshade]

Now you've just got to work on that 40% unemployment and all the angry Serbs you've got in your territory.

We're in charge now, and our current government seems to have taken these issues very seriously!

 

Kosovan independence is the most stupid, dangerous, short-sighted and out-dated solution to the problem one can imagine.

 

It has created an illegal state right in the heart of Europe.

 

A new Israel with all the same problems.

 

Countless dollars will be needed to protect it, as well as countless lives.

 

It could end in nuclear war - no joke.

Illegal? The decision of declaring the independence does not violate 1244, even Ban Ki Mun confirmed that in the last SC meeting!

 

Countless dollars, oh pleeaseeee, save me from this crap! Did you see who was totally in charge on sunday and monday? Our forces, our police. Serbian tried to enter our territory at one point but it took 5 minutes for our forces to paralyse the situation. Besides that, defend it from who? Let serbians try to do something, the saw what happened for 87 days in 1999!

 

...but Kosovo was already indepedent, not on paper, but in practice.

Absolutely! It only demanded international recognition!

 

Why is it illegal? Just because Russia and China don't like it?

hi5! And nobody supported Russia when it requested from the Security Council to cancel to independence of Kosovo.

 

And every 30 mins a new country is officially recognizing our independence! Weeeee!

[CDarwin]

I'm skeptical as to whether or not this will solve (or change) the real problems Kosavo faces, but I don't think that anyone's going to be invading anyone else over it.

[thedarkshade]

In a bizarre way you are right Darwin, as we are currently going through some problems, this is our challenge and being independent is a great encouragement for us! And we are really really looking forward to Donators Conference, by which we will really depend on a major scale!

[Severian]

I agree with bombus. It was none of the US's or the EU's damn business. We in the west really have to learn to stop interfering with internal politics in other countries.

 

The Serbians had just elected a pro-west government who had expressed an interest in joining the EU. And then we go and kick them in the bollocks by recognising the independence of Kosovo. Everything was working out - all we had to do was wait and time would cure the problem.

 

All this will do is stir up a hornet's nest of violence again, creating wave after wave of revenge.

[Pangloss]

We're in charge now, and our current government seems to have taken these issues very seriously!

 

Yes, this is where new countries learn that having is not the same as wanting. Your government is now responsible for the protection of millions of people it wanted dead three days ago. And the whole world will be watching how it handles that responsibility. It will not be easy, nor is there any particular reason for anyone to think that Kosovo any better equipped to deal with this issue than anybody else (and quite a lot of reason to think them less well equipped).

 

For what it's worth, I wish them luck.

 

I agree with bombus. It was none of the US's or the EU's damn business. We in the west really have to learn to stop interfering with internal politics in other countries.

 

The Serbians had just elected a pro-west government who had expressed an interest in joining the EU. And then we go and kick them in the bollocks by recognising the independence of Kosovo. Everything was working out - all we had to do was wait and time would cure the problem.

 

I disagree with the above, I think the Serbs are the ones who need to mind their own business. It never was their country, and their rhetoric is wrong. This is EXACTLY what the west needs to be doing with regard to foreign relations, and EXACTLY how the west needs to be doing it. And the fact that Serbs elected a pro-western government and wanted to join the EU is irrelevent and self-serving. You know, kinda like we were with Iraq. That was a very Bush-like statement, guy.

[CDarwin]

And the fact that Serbs elected a pro-western government and wanted to join the EU is irrelevent and self-serving. You know, kinda like we were with Iraq. That was a very Bush-like statement, guy.

 

I contest that somewhat. Serbia opening to the West can be a powerful agent for good in Serbia and Kosavo: economic growth and increased incentives to protect human rights, for example. Genuine home-grown liberalism germinates much more easily in such an environment, and it's not totally self-serving to consider whether-or-not the West's support of Kosavo is compromising that.

 

I'm not wholly convinced that's the case here. Serbia has powerful economic incentives to continue courting the EU, just like Turkey does despite whatever the US Congress declares genocide. But the point stands.

[Pangloss]

Of course it's a good thing that Serbia was "opening up". They're certainly making progress. More progress is required.

 

Not asked. Required.

 

And yes, it was self-serving. Had America taken a position like that you'd have half this country and most of the rest of the world screaming "American imperialism" right now. Europeans have a stake in this fire, whether they like it or not. In fact it's incredibly hypocritical to suggest that Europe should "staying out of" the Kosovo issue when in fact what was being suggested is that Europe take Serbia's SIDE.

[Severian]

I disagree with the above, I think the Serbs are the ones who need to mind their own business. It never was their country, and their rhetoric is wrong. This is EXACTLY what the west needs to be doing with regard to foreign relations, and EXACTLY how the west needs to be doing it. And the fact that Serbs elected a pro-western government and wanted to join the EU is irrelevent and self-serving. You know, kinda like we were with Iraq. That was a very Bush-like statement, guy.

 

So, do you support the independence of the Basque region of Spain too? How about the kurds in northen Iraq & turkey? If not, why not?

 

In fact, if a town in the southern US, near the mexican border voted to leave the US and join Mexico, should the UN recognise it as part of Mexico?

 

Funnily enough, this sort of happened recently in the UK. The town of Berwick-upon-Tweed in Northern England, right on the border with Scotland, voted (in fair and free elections) to leave England and join Scotland. However, there is no legal procedure for doing so, so they remain part of England. Should the UN, US and EU step in to liberate them from the English yoke of oppression?

[Pangloss]

So, do you support the independence of the Basque region of Spain too? How about the kurds in northen Iraq & turkey? If not, why not?

 

In fact, if a town in the southern US, near the mexican border voted to leave the US and join Mexico, should the UN recognise it as part of Mexico?

 

Funnily enough, this sort of happened recently in the UK. The town of Berwick-upon-Tweed in Northern England, right on the border with Scotland, voted (in fair and free elections) to leave England and join Scotland. However, there is no legal procedure for doing so, so they remain part of England. Should the UN, US and EU step in to liberate them from the English yoke of oppression?

 

Each of those cases, including cases in the US, has its share of merits and drawbacks -- some are credible, others are not. I believe each case has to be looked at independently, not pawned off in a blanket statement one way or the other.

 

I'm not even convinced independence is best for Kosovo. All I can say for sure is that the Serbian government is hardly a neutral, objective arbiter in this matter.

 

In general I think myriads of smaller states is less productive/beneficial than a small number of large ones, and ultimately just one. But in some cases it appears to still be necessary from time to time to fracture an existing political order so that we may mend the underlying issues. Kind of a "break some eggs to make an omelet" approach.

 

And yes, I believe we have no only a right to do that, but an obligation. We're all world citizens now, like it or not. Technology has made us so.