Dr?

[CDarwin]

How many PhD's and MDs and likesuch are really insistent on being addressed "Doctor so and so"? Personally, I wonder how I would feel about it. I suppose I'd want to be addressed properly; you spent a decade of your life getting that degree after all. It seems a tad self-important, though.

[thedarkshade]

After all that hard work for getting a PhD, a word of respect for that would be no harm:P

[swansont]

I pretty much only insist on it when friends who would normally address me by my first name, use "Mr." instead. Or other cases with similar sarcasm is present. Otherwise it just makes things awkward and gets in the way. But then, I don't currently teach — that would be different, as there is an obvious separation of position that the title reinforces.

 

Rarely, as a way to equalize status (usually preceded by someone else insisting on using their title.)

[ecoli]

I'm going for an Md/Phd,.. I want people to address me as "Dr. Dr."

[CharonY]

Almost all PhDs I know (including myself) do not use the Dr. It is sometimes used when one looks kinda youngish and gets introduced to other senior scientist with whom one is not really familiar with. This is just to distinguish PhD students from the postdocs but after that one tends to be on first name terms.

 

I actually ever only use my Dr. while communicating with medical doctors. Otherwise I never use it, even not with students (well, unless someone particularly gets on my nerves).

 

On the other hand, senior professors are usually addressed as Prof. or Dr. by students anyway, so they usually do not need to enforce it. In Germany there are no assistant or associated profs, btw. So only the department head gets the title of a professor.

From what I have seen in the US so far professors are called Dr. by the staff and students up until they start working in their labs. Then it is often first names again (or at least last name w/o Dr.).

[ecoli]

Phds you know by first name, yes. But, the term 'professor' is common, at least at my school. PhDs that teach are all called this, even by students who don't have them as a teacher.

[Pangloss]

I'm curious if there are there schools out there that actually do have rules about that sort of thing. I'm also curious if there's an historical context there. I've heard that it used to be common, but I don't think I've ever actually read it anywhere.

[CharonY]

Phds you know by first name, yes. But, the term 'professor' is common, at least at my school. PhDs that teach are all called this, even by students who don't have them as a teacher.

 

Yep, that is one of the differences I noticed here. In Germany a professor is comparable to a department head. E.g. where I did my phd my prof had ~150 people (phds, graduate students, undergrads and staff) working for him. He was the only one possessing the title of a professor out of the whole bunch. As such a German professor is way high in the academic food chain.

In the US and I suppose also in the UK a professor is more a teacher. That's kind of the things that appear to be similar internationally but in fact are not. Got me kinda irritated that everyone here was called professor until I noticed that they weren't even tenured ;P

[Aeternus]

Yep, that is one of the differences I noticed here. In Germany a professor is comparable to a department head. E.g. where I did my phd my prof had ~150 people (phds, graduate students, undergrads and staff) working for him. He was the only one possessing the title of a professor out of the whole bunch. As such a German professor is way high in the academic food chain.

In the US and I suppose also in the UK a professor is more a teacher. That's kind of the things that appear to be similar internationally but in fact are not. Got me kinda irritated that everyone here was called professor until I noticed that they weren't even tenured ;P

 

I'm pretty sure this is not the case here in the UK. I wouldn't suggest that the title of professor is quite as restricted as in Germany but certainly there are a very limited number of professors compared to lecturers from what I have seen and it is definitely higher up in the academic food chain.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor#Most_other_English-speaking_countries

[Klaynos]

Most of the phds I know go by first names to students, Dr bleh is only used in formal situations or introductions.

 

Where as most of the professors (which is pretty much research group heads) go by Prof. Blah until you know them and they they will go by first names.

 

I'm actually at the University of Exeter mentioned in Aet's link and I've never come accross an associate professor, guess we don't have any in physics...

[ajb]

As with all titles, it is only impressive to people who don't have the same title (or higher). Therefore, I would not really use the title (when I get it) with my academic contemporaries, but would for undergrad students and members of the general public when interacting professionally.

 

The title may also prove useful when dealing with the bank manager etc?

[Blue Fire]

I used to have a thing against titles like Dr. in a college setting. I was an older student when I returned to college for an advanced degree, and I noticed that some instructors would introduce themselves to their class by writing "Dr. so-and-so" on the blackboard and then proceed to address their students by first names. The first time one of those instructors did that to me, I politely corrected him with "Ah... that's Mr. Me, please." After that we got on quite well on a first name basis for everyone.

 

I then tried an experiment at 2 different highschools for which I subsequently did substitute teaching. In school A, I followed school policy in insisting on a "Mr." in front of my name. In school B, I asked the students to call me by my first name. I found the students in school B more difficult to control at first, but in the long run, I had even more control of and respect from the school B students because it apparently was a more personal affront to me (from the student's point of view) to misbehave and/or disrespect me. I was able to be much more effective as a teacher/leader when it was all personal instead of the formal air inherent in the use of titles at school A.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Sisyphus]

I'm not a PhD, but I think I would find it embarrassingly pompous to be called "doctor" in all but the most formal settings. All of my professors at school were PhDs, obviously, but not one of them referred to him or her self as "doctor" or asked students to refer to them that way.

 

On the other hand, it seems totally natural and automatic in the context of medical doctors. Why is that?

[antimatter]

I want to be a doctor, and when I do, I'm going to make sure that's how people address me, after all the work I put in to becoming what I am.

Although when people do correct you, no matter how hard they try not to, they come off as sort of needy and arrogant.

[thedarkshade]

Although when people do correct you, no matter how hard they try not to, they come off as sort of needy and arrogant.

And I always thought correction was necessary...

[antimatter]

It is...that's not my point though.

[nochirality]

I find that my professors find it disrespectful to be addressed by Dr. They'd much rather be called "Prof".... I have no idea why... So I definitely DOUBT that they'd love to be called "Mr." on the other hand, i have one prof who likes being called by his first name. He's my biochem prof.

[iNow]

It also likely depends on the culture, region, and/or setting. I do not believe there is any hard and fast rule as to what is and what is not appropriate. It is a matter of context and circumstance. The first-hand comments and experience shared above, I believe, bear out this point.

[Glider]

I think it's slightly different in the US. I believe that in the US, any Ph.D. who teaches is called professor. In the UK, Ph.Ds are never called Professor. Only professors are, i.e. those who have been awarded an institutional or personal chair (we have five in our department).

 

As for using the title 'doctor', I think it's only really necessary in formal situations that require the use of any title, Mr. Ms. Dr. Prof. Sir, M'Lud, Your Honour, etc.. I don't really mind at work though. I have a few students who insist on using the title, and many who don't, but it's ok either way as far as I''m concerned.

 

The only thing I find a little irritating is the habit of those few students fresh from school that insist on calling me 'sir'. Perhaps it's a hangover from the army, but I find myself thinking 'Don't call me sir, I work for a living!'

[rz]

The only thing I find a little irritating is the habit of those few students fresh from school that insist on calling me 'sir'. Perhaps it's a hangover from the army, but I find myself thinking 'Don't call me sir, I work for a living!'

 

Actaully, when someone, in an informal setting, introduces them selves as Dr. I tend to INtroduce my self as a Second Liuetenant in return. I find that it gets my subtle point about being pompous across to them. (yes, they earned the title Dr, but I also earned my Commission)

[Klaynos]

I once had a lecturer who referred to himself as Dr Steve...

[Glider]

Actaully, when someone, in an informal setting, introduces them selves as Dr. I tend to INtroduce my self as a Second Liuetenant in return. I find that it gets my subtle point about being pompous across to them. (yes, they earned the title Dr, but I also earned my Commission)

I think the problem is that since the 50s, the precise understanding of what constitutes a formal situation has been lost.

 

Before then, it was always 'Good morning Major!'...'Ah...Mornin' Doctor!' and so-on, until/unless they became friends, then 'on a first name basis'. There were quite clear conventions of etiquette concerning introductions and the use of titles.

 

Since the 60s however, many began to distance themselves from 'old school' etiquette and convention (it's 'uncool') and teachers started saying things like 'Call me Dave' (I'm one of you...cool and rebellious...daddio), so schoolkids grew up not knowing the social conventions concerning titles.

 

Some, however, preferrred to stick to convention.These are the ones that can get uppity if their titles aren't used correctly. The fault isn't theirs though, they have a right to their title. But the lack of consistency between individuals, some with the 'call me Dave' approach and others with the 'that's doctor Williams' approach means that now, nobody knows what to call anybody in any situation.

 

All titles do now is make most people uncomfortable because they don't know whether or not, or when, to use them appropriately and nobody likes being made socially uncomfortable.

 

I once had a lecturer who referred to himself as Dr Steve...

Ugh! That's the most horrible combination of the two: 'I'm a doctor and so require your respect yet, I'm still one of you cool dudes...just better'. It's nauseating.

[CDarwin]

I may as well share my anecdote.

 

What at least partially inspired me to venture this question was an incident at a University of Tennessee visit a few weeks ago. I was meeting with an anthropology lecturer and mentioned an exhibit at the museum there that "Andrew Kramer" had designed. She referred to him again several times in the meeting but she seemed to make a point of calling him "Dr. Kramer" every time. I was wondering if I had made some sort of faux pas.

 

It might be because he's her boss as head of the anthropology department there. It could be a southern thing, I suppose, or at least an East Tennessee thing. We tend to stick to our social conventions here. I've never had a teacher I called by the first name, for example.

[Severian]

I never insist on Dr. I think by the time you have got to a highish academic rank, pretty much everyone you know have some sort of similar title, or have in my opinion done enough to deserve one anyway. So I don't feel 'special' and don't feel the need to assert that I am.

 

For example, there is no title to specially address a mother who has successfully brought up 3 kids, but that is a much more arduous task than doing a PhD. So why should I get a special title and her not?

[swansont]

Actaully, when someone, in an informal setting, introduces them selves as Dr. I tend to INtroduce my self as a Second Liuetenant in return. I find that it gets my subtle point about being pompous across to them. (yes, they earned the title Dr, but I also earned my Commission)

 

I find that a little amusing, because I never thought of it in terms of "earning" mine, though in my case, not all that much was required to get it (I earned my bachelor's degree above a certain GPA and passed a series of interviews). In my current job, I'm considered to be the equivalent of between an O-4 and O-5, in large part because of my degree. Having done both the military thing and grad school in physics, I can tell you that to me the "Dr." represents a greater investment of time and effort than the commission was, and IMO acts as a much better discriminator of technical ability (though not so much on leadership ability) as the selection and promotion process of the first couple of paygrades of the military.

 

I don't want this to sound bad, but I'm glad that none of the junior officers I've encountered at work have ever tried to play the game and try to impress me with their rank, because I have a pretty good idea of how "hard" it was to get there. I'm not particularly impressed by titles — you get respect by your actions, demonstrating competence — but then, isn't that the whole point of this thread?