PogoC7 Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Whats also funny is that everytime they kill a terminator. Skynet sends a stronger one in it's place. One from farther in the TimeLine. It can also be seen as a form of evolution. Machines are bound to take over the human race. As other books suggest (DUNE). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeo Posted February 5, 2003 Author Share Posted February 5, 2003 I agree with you on how building skynet is inevitable...did you even read what I said? the chip is going to developed no matter what...connor & T-800 just delayed it...or maybe they were playing their part in the timeline .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 /bangs head on wall That's my own fault for using the word "inevitable" where I should have said "all SkyNet has accomplished is making its own creation occur earlier on in time." I am not saying that travel to the past is pointless because the future is set and destiny inevitable. That's not provable, and anything you claim to know about the dynamics of the future is pure speculation. What can be logically modelled however is that SkyNet was originally designed in a timeline where there was no technology from the future (IE - "before" SkyNet sent the T800 back), and that the intrusion of future technology into the present served only to move the date of construction, and not to allow for the possibility of SkyNet's existence as the script suggests. In case that's too oblique... the upshot of this is "SkyNet is not inevitable, but can affect its own origins in any timeline where it exists". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Originally posted by PogoC7 Whats also funny is that everytime they kill a terminator. Skynet sends a stronger one in it's place. One from farther in the TimeLine. It can also be seen as a form of evolution. Machines are bound to take over the human race. As other books suggest (DUNE). Only in the way that evolution means change, it has nothing to do with biological-type evolution. Why are they bound to take over? The thing in Dune was the 'Butlerian Jihad', and the main point wasn't really about military conflict or conquest per se (google Samuel Butler erewhon) - more to do with the slightly wierd ideals of humanity herbert was advancing. I might as well reference asimov and claim they're bound to be benign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucks Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 i have often thought about and have been amazed by this topic, i figure it is easy to go forward in time my use of going into 'stasis" (i think its called) where you freeze your body and wake up in the same state some time in the future. as for going back in time, the only way i can thik of is passing everything you know to a younger form of yourself, or going back in time and greating a new present (now future). i read a great book about time travel, its 'replay' by ken grimwood, this guy dies from a heart attack and wakes up the next morning in his colledge dorm. this happens a few times and he meets other people that are in the same situation as him, its a great book and i recomend it to anyone who is intrigued about time travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED FIRE COW Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Originally posted by PogoC7 Whats also funny is that everytime they kill a terminator. Skynet sends a stronger one in it's place. One from farther in the TimeLine. It can also be seen as a form of evolution. Machines are bound to take over the human race. As other books suggest (DUNE). I see your point but the evoution of machines depend on the human race. Eventhough I come from GALAXY far far away in the past we still had more technology than you guys. another thing. The movie AI shows possibilities of your theory though humans are always in control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Originally posted by RED FIRE COW another thing. The movie AI shows possibilities of your theory though humans are always in control. The point of that movie was that humans had little or no control of their creation, their lack of accountability and foresight being personified in David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED FIRE COW Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 I didnt mean they hd control over their creations decisions but the humans were still in control overal in the robots. Like in WW2 the humans represent the nazis and the robots the jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RED FIRE COW Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 I like your quote. you should rent the movie Troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PogoC7 Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Originally posted by RED FIRE COW I see your point but the evoution of machines depend on the human race. Eventhough I come from GALAXY far far away in the past we still had more technology than you guys. another thing. The movie AI shows possibilities of your theory though humans are always in control. At the end. No humans were left on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSX Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Originally posted by bucks ii read a great book about time travel, its 'replay' by ken grimwood, this guy dies from a heart attack and wakes up the next morning in his colledge dorm. this happens a few times and he meets other people that are in the same situation as him, its a great book and i recomend it to anyone who is intrigued about time travel. Is it a Sci-Fi or purely fictin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_FLeX Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 If it is possible to travel back in time why havent we been visited by our future selves? There are just way to many paradoxes that leave me to believe that it is just not possible. And another thing, in Terminator didn't you think it was kind of odd that the computers were so advanced and yet could not kill off us puny humans, I hate how all the main stream science fiction movies portray A.I to be so frightening. Couldn't they think of a better plan then to send a guy back to kill 1 person? When A.I. does decide to show itself, it will evolve at an exponential rate leaving us humans in the dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Yeah, especially at the rate random features (bugs) appear in code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Originally posted by T_FLeX If it is possible to travel back in time why havent we been visited by our future selves? There are just way to many paradoxes that leave me to believe that it is just not possible. And another thing, in Terminator didn't you think it was kind of odd that the computers were so advanced and yet could not kill off us puny humans, I hate how all the main stream science fiction movies portray A.I to be so frightening. Couldn't they think of a better plan then to send a guy back to kill 1 person? When A.I. does decide to show itself, it will evolve at an exponential rate leaving us humans in the dust. For the time travel question: There are a couple of reasons you haven't been visited by your future self. One is that it's highly unlikely that easy and accessible travel to the past will be available within your lifetime. Another is that if it were, you'd expect the designers to warn travellers that meeting themselves in the past is not a good idea. Lastly, if you ditched that advice and met yourself, the resolution of any paradoxes you created would probably erase you from the native timeline and nobody else would ever know you had existed. Try to get over the 'paradox argument'. There's no such thing as an actual paradox - it's just a concept that humans come up with to explain why they can't apply linear logic to a non-linear situation, which is obviously very short sighted. I'm not sure film makers do intend to portray AI as frightening. Most of the time the message in the film is "look at what our ambition and lack of foresight did to us - now that's scary". In AI for instance, the robots basically represent the black slaves of colonial Britain and America. They have no rights, they aren't considered alive, they are merely property to the people who can afford to keep them. In Terminator, the AI in question is a single machine, which makes the entirely logical decision that there isn't enough room on the planet for it and humanity. The only reason that it was able to act on that is because it was tied into the planetary defence and communications systems. Note: SkyNet launched its offensive in self defence. In The Matrix, the machines are faced with extinction after the sun is blocked out. So are we. They simply acted more quickly in finding an alternative energy source - and that's just ecology, which is hardly scary. Which is worse...? Living a meagre existence on the surface of the planet after burning the skies, or living in an artificial reality that mimics the world while at the same time allowing the AI to continue to exist? (See Matrix Plot thread for more in-depth discussion of this). Note: The Machines launched their offensive in self defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_FLeX Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 I remeber last year doing an article for my technology class about an experiment that shot laser beams through tubes of cesium vapor causing faster then light travel, and if i recall, the beam exited the tube befor it entered? I never did find out if this was true? Anyone remember something like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Originally posted by T_FLeX I remeber last year doing an article for my technology class about an experiment that shot laser beams through tubes of cesium vapor causing faster then light travel, and if i recall, the beam exited the tube befor it entered? I never did find out if this was true? Anyone remember something like this? Sounds cool - seeing effect before cause. Google for it, see what you come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_FLeX Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 I did a quick "faster than light travel cesium vapor" yahoo search and this is what i found. "The experimenters used a 2.4-inch glass cell filled with cesium vapor. They used two laser pulses to raise the energy of the cesium atoms to a specific altered energy state. A precisely tuned third laser soaked up the excess energy and a pulse shot out of the cell at a speed faster than light. According to Wang and several other physicists, the reason the light behaves the way it does is that when the leading edge of that third laser pulse begins to enter the chamber, it carries with it all the information needed to reconstruct the entire light wave. That allows the cesium atoms in the chamber to spit out a light beam before the entering pulse has fully reached them." I read that the leader of the project said....em let me find it “This effect cannot be used to send information back in time,” said Lijun Wang, a researcher with the private NEC Institute. Wouldn't the information verifying that it did go faster then the speed of light be information? If something goes faster then the speed of light it "has" to go back in time right? Someone clue me in please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 In this experiment, the group velocity was faster than light, but none of the members of the group actually exceeded the speed of light, and the signal did reach the receiver before it left the transmitter, by an extremely small amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 It's still a terribly interesting effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T_FLeX Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Since were on the subject of time travel in movies, one of my all time favortie movies was 12 monkeys. Anyone see this one? The basic point of it was that even if there is time travel there is no way one could actually go back and change it. For example if you use the "going back to kill your grandmother paradox" you could go back in time, but no matter how hard you tried, something always happens that prevents you from doing so. If this explanation is right then the universe would have to be derterministic right? From what I have read, chaos theory and quantum mechanics debunks determinism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contradiction Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 cant be done we have slowwed down time.. just travel fast in space. hit the speed of light and it stopps... pass it and theoretically, it reverses. problem is, time is relative, and that is why when we have astronauts travel fast and there clocks read different, they still can come back and be in the same time as us. something else changed with time to compensate. like matter slowed down.. or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
contradiction Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 chaos theory and determinism totally agree... chaos is simply the inability for a human to percieve, in the same way the a lottery ticket is random, but not truely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 But chaos theory and quantum mechanics shouldn't even be talked about in the same sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 Originally posted by contradiction theoretically, it reverses. mathematically, it reverses, which is something else entirely. just because the mathematics says something will happen, this doesn't mean that theoretically it will happen. there are many things that are ignored in 'theoretical' terms, since they are purely unphysical, and just a result of the fact that we are (probably) dealing with a subjective view of an objective universe. furthermore, determinism is the assertation that everything is completely determined already, and this does not agree with chaos entirely, since determinism works under the assumption that our knowledge of physics is complete enough to say that everything can be determined from rules. however as I have pointed out in another thread, this is an invalid assumption, as we do not know physics in a complete enough sense to say whether things really are deterministic, or computable, in the way that classical mechanics is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aman Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 Since when we approach the speed of light, we flatten. Is it supposed that we become one dimensional until we slow down again and re-expand after we have passed the speed of light? Now we find ourselves in the past. I understand the physics up to the speed of light since that is observable and testable but past that is speculation. I think if a human being or craft could survive one dimensionality then that opens up a big can of worms as far as other life in the universe and the significance of magnificent us. Just aman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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