Is organic food silly?

[thedarkshade]

I think supporting organic foods is beneficial for ecological reasons.

I agree with you. But we humans have this bad habit of giving taste a lot of importance.

[Phi for All]

But we humans have this bad habit of giving taste a lot of importance.

I think taste *is* important. It's what makes eating pleasurable, and it drives us toward variety. Eating without taste would be like sex without touch.

 

I think it's more important than convenience, which we value so highly we often give up many benefits to get it.

[iNow]

Eating without taste would be like sex without touch.

 

I'd like to try that second option for myself before coming to any conclusions. Where do I sign up?

[Phi for All]

I'd like to try that second option for myself before coming to any conclusions. Where do I sign up?

Over there by that table full of condoms and oven mitts. Once you've signed the non-compete, just put on 20 of the condoms and 3 pairs of oven mitts (no no, the mitts go on your hands) and you'll be ready for the sex-without-touch experiment.

[SkepticLance]

My view on ecologically sound farming practise is that it can, and should, be done by both organic and conventional farmers. For example : If a farm has a water way running through it, that stream should be fenced off so that farm animals cannot reach it, and the space between fence and water should be planted in a suitable 'weed' capable of absorbing nutrient run off. This can be done with either type of farm.

 

Organic farms rely heavily on mechanical digging out of weeds. This loosens soil and exposes the organic matter to accelerated oxidation, which both increases CO2 emissions, and reduces organic content. It would be better, in fact, to spray weeds out with a biodegradable herbicide like glyphosate, in terms of reducing harm to the ecology.

 

However, conventional farms have their ecological crimes also.

[John Cuthber]

Nice idea but who pays for things like this "If a farm has a water way running through it, that stream should be fenced off so that farm animals cannot reach it, and the space between fence and water should be planted in a suitable 'weed' capable of absorbing nutrient run off. " and what do you do with the weed? Wouldn't it make more snese to grow a crop there?- perhaps the easiest would be the same crop as is in the rest of the field.

Come to think of it, if you don't do that you can leave out the fence.

If you do all that all you need is a ban on application of fertiliser within x feet of a stream. There are similar bans on the use of pesticides near boundaries.

[thedarkshade]

I think taste *is* important. It's what makes eating pleasurable, and it drives us toward variety.

Pleasurable doesn't always mean healthy. Sometimes a little sacrifice really pays back.

[LookUp2]

I agree with you. But we humans have this bad habit of giving taste a lot of importance.

 

I am not sure where you are going with this, so if my response is off base, let me know. I know when I visited Mexico years ago I was totally overwhelmed by the taste of the fresh fruits compared to what I grew up with from grocery stores. There was no comparison to the papayas and limes I knew from home compared to joy it was to eat these items grown locally.

 

Processed foods tend to taste different than processed organics due to the restrictions on additives. An example would be Calcium chloride. Its in most (if not all) jars of processed pickles to help keep them from getting mushy. When we canned our own pickles, we used a grape leaf to help keep them crisp. It took me several years to adjust to the taste of store bought pickles after having 20 years of the home canned variety.

 

This is not to say all home recipes are equal.

 

My view on ecologically sound farming practise is that it can, and should, be done by both organic and conventional farmers. For example : If a farm has a water way running through it, that stream should be fenced off so that farm animals cannot reach it, and the space between fence and water should be planted in a suitable 'weed' capable of absorbing nutrient run off. This can be done with either type of farm.

 

Organic farms rely heavily on mechanical digging out of weeds. This loosens soil and exposes the organic matter to accelerated oxidation, which both increases CO2 emissions, and reduces organic content. It would be better, in fact, to spray weeds out with a biodegradable herbicide like glyphosate, in terms of reducing harm to the ecology.

 

However, conventional farms have their ecological crimes also.

 

Water run-off has some balancing factors. This has more to do with how many animals are running on how many acres and what type of wetland/flowage surrounds the area. I've seen (in the past) fenced walkways leading directly to a pond/waterway where the cattle had little option to relieve themselves where it would not impact the water and I have seen other examples where given the room to roam the cattle stayed away from the wetlands as much as possible. Their interests were in grazing. Hogs are a problem because they enjoy wallowing so much. I dont know how sheep are.

 

As far as mechanical weeding, that happens on all farms to some degree, conventional or organic. Plowing is the first step in weed management for most farms, and there are various methods of this.

Heres a page that gives some idea of the variety of tillages used and some analysis of desired outcomes:

http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/tillage.html

The above gives some good keywords for further searching.

 

You neglected to include some of the other weed control methods used in organics, such as mulching, multi-crop plantings (a layering of the field so to speak), organic weed controls etc.

 

Now dont get me wrong on this. I do not think we can sustain the number of people who need to be fed worldwide with organic farms. The combination of pesticide, ferts, and herbicides used increase production with minimal labor investment.

 

I also think neighborhood gardens in the inner cities would be very beneficial to the peoples who live there for multiple reasons. Getting kids off their video games and weeding, the taste of fresh foods, the sense of accomplishment, and an appreciation for how much work is involved in putting food on the table could only be a positive effect long-term.

[Phi for All]

Sometimes a little sacrifice really pays back.

Isn't that the Soylent Green slogan?

[SkepticLance]

To John Cuthber

 

Re fences.

If you are a farmer with livestock, then fencing off the water way is ecologically advisable. Cattle, horses, and sheep have a habit of walking into water and stirring it all up, shifting sediment downstream.

 

We had a situation here in NZ where a bunch of guys got together to clean up a harbour. They identified the main cause of pollution as being cattle farms. It took some years, but they eventually managed to get every farm bordering the harbour, and bordering streams that flowed into the harbour to erect the appropriate fences. On the harbour side of the fence, they planted a salt tolerant sedge. On the streams, it was a reed.

 

Anyway, after some years, the harbour is now clean and clear, and the fish are back. Locals are delighted with the improvement in harbour fishing, which is apparently dramatic.

 

The interesting thing is that farm production has also increased. Cattle health improved. It appears that wallowing in water is a good way to spread disease from cow to cow. Farmers are also delighted with the improvement. Genuine win/win.

[John Cuthber]

Thanks for the reply.

 

 

"I think taste *is* important. It's what makes eating pleasurable,"

Phi for all, have you ever been really hungry?

[thedarkshade]

Isn't that the Soylent Green slogan?

Dunno, but it sure is mine too!

 

... have you ever been really hungry?

Oh dear, don't go there! After we losing the food somewhere when me and my colleagues were on 'climbing tour', I was so hungry I could even eat a rat and don't care about the taste.