Air Trecks

[Krome X Wong]

Yes this project will never end until its created,

I just give the link of a forums which has gained many ideas, but since i guess theres no one in there were active then we could just continue it here..... Just us and those who want to join us ....

Jelmers, ihave some thjng to ask you about, but first of can i add you on fb?

[jelmers]

sure my name is jelmersanting

are this good motor's?

http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/motors_geared.html

[rohit24]

hey,

i'am new here i have been reading this forum for 2 years.

 

i think we can use gel battery - they are lighter and give more resistance to shock and vibration.

[halobiohazard]

So, i know that this hasn't really been active for a few months now, but i would also like to input since im a 17 yr old who also would like to create this, and i've been looking for collaborators to produce the AT's, i've also researched how to get financial support from skullcandy to fund this project if it ever launches...

 

i've read most of the forum and it seems that the main problem is the motor and the battery power,

 

why dont we have more than one motor, to separate the total power into like four, two per wheel?

can that not happen?

 

what about the batteries?

so far our longest lasting batteries last for 5 hours (at least the ones ive found, and thhose are for laptops...)

 

where will we fit the brakes?

the sides? but then how will we secure them to the plastic inside and keep it stable enough to support 200lbs?

[CaptainPanic]

Laptop manufacturers will claim that the battery will last 5 hours, but that is at minimum usage. You may want to look up the Whr (watt-hours) of the battery. Then you want to look up the power usage of your motors. And then you can calculate how long that battery will last in your skates. (Hint: not 5 hours).

 

If you want a simple system that has a battery, a motor and a power throttle, get a cordless drill. It has everything you need already. This will have a motor of about 100W.

A more expensive (but probably better) system is found on an electric bike. Electric bicycles have a 250 W motor which can get those bikes up to 25 km/h (with the cyclist having to pedal too). But although their motors are designed to be lightweight and small, they're probably too big for a skate.

[halobiohazard]

well if we want to have actual fun with these things, it should go for at least 3-4 hrs of continuous usage..

 

 

i was looking at motors from RC cars made to pull 17 lbs, and since i will be soon going to go to college, i will be studying electrical engineering to produce a custom motor, because so far, i've only seen motors not made for this purpose..

Furthermore, dem suspensions doe,

[Bonifacio]

I really hope one day AT's are real

They are a really great idea that need to be made real. If people try hard enough one day they are bound to happen. They are a worthy goal to work towards so whoever is still working on them don't give up and keep trying because one day you will make so many people happy with what you have created.

[Bonifacio]

Guys couldnt you make the rotation of the wheels power the motor? like bicycle generator but take out the diode so it makes the wheel spin

[halobiohazard]

But wouldn't that be impossible, like those drinking bird contraptions that cant go on forever?

[Alffa93]

"Patgear" motor-wheel http://www.buychinatao.com/index.php/taobao/view/id/36255266351# go???

[jelmers]

you can power the wheels but just for part of the power. I was thinking to use the same idee as used in a eleckric skate board

[Xirozic]

Hey everyone, I've been following this topic for the past year or so and have been looking over it and thinking on it. Jelmers' idea has merit, as they don't necessarily need to be fully self powered, especially at such an early stage of development. Four small and independent motors per skate (or more, depending on the skate itself), as in one per wheel, would work also in conjunction with the fore mentioned idea also. By decreasing the work each motor has to do by not solely relying on the motors for movement allows for less power to be consumed over time. This is opposed by the addition of more motors, but more torque can be created overall with more motors, thus making them work fairly better when running with the weight of a person on them.

 

It was previously brought up that brakes could be a problem, and especially suspension (a good and efficient suspension would reduce the stress on the motors by a large margin, increasing durability. This may be at the cost of a higher weight though.) in regards to placement. I do agree that this is a notable problem that needs just as much, if not more, attention as the motors and power supply: speed and run-time mean little if the parts break or if the setup cant stop.

 

Any input regarding either of these? ^^^

 

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I was just looking around as some small servo motors and I have a possible idea for the setup of both the motors, brakes, and maybe suspension. With how most of the small motors that might work for this application are set up, they need a fair amount more room than a feasibly sized wheel would provide. The idea I am proposing is that there could be a primary suspension setup that goes directly from the skate to the wheels, and then have the motors extending out slightly from the sides of the wheels with a setup for controlling them included. This would be somewhat independent from the skate as a whole to avoid shock damage through a small suspension like setup that would connect the upper part of the assembly to a point higher up on the skate. It may be bulky but it also may work as it would allow for either bigger or longer motors to be implemented, thus allowing more speed and torque.

 

Also, keep in mind that these skates don't necessarily have to be identical to actual Air Trecks, they only need to function enough to be a proof of concept so this can all move forward. While a small setup mostly contained to the wheels that goes faster than say 30mph and almost entirely, if not entirely, self propelled sounds amazing, it is not feasible at the moment. As I said, we need to make a functional prototype/proof of concept first, even if it isn't fully self propelled or some thing of the sort like "real" Air Trecks.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Xirozic

[DreamersRoad]

im new to this place but i have fallowed air gears from the begining and i commend all thoes here who have done the research and tests but the thing everyone keeps doing is realying on the battery to do the work but in the show it was the user that affected the speed so here is my theroy on the matter

use magnets in the wheeles attach them to a moter to speed them up making more power whitch takes less effort the faster you go yes its a slow start but thats what we are looking for starting small and then inprovising

think about it to in the show they had to keep pusshing off to go faster or to just maintain speed so quite thinking your going to need a bateriey to do the work the only rason they didnt push off most times is because they where costing

now when is comes to kazu and his runners start well i dont know how that works and for Ikki and his standing start i dont know ether but we are just looking to get blades and skates to move faster at min a avrage joe able to go 15-30 mph let the extreamers start the fad for going 60-100 mph

in Krome X Wong video he was using a batterie and not moving himself he was realying on the skates to do all the work for him now his work was indeed awsome but with this age in wireless tecnoligy we should be able to moniter/regulate speed based on one skate vs the other now something to is someone neare the beging of this thread posted the name of a device to moniter the speed between them so no one does the splits

also rather then using sleek inline rolerblades we should be looking at boochas roler skates the reason there bigger and allow more room for things to be put in and if i remember right wasent roler skates made first befor rolerblades ? if so then shouldent we do the same ?

inclosing we should
1)start with rollerskates
2)start with slow speeds
3)have fun inventing
4)share what we have luearned
5)go to school with our ideas and show our teachers/professers
6)go to skateing events and see what the pros think who knows maybe they would lend the money to get you or a groupe started

im sorry that im all over the board its hard for me to organize my thoughts on subjects like this and also the poor spelling

[Krome X Wong]

Sorry guys, first i thought this forums was dead XD, next i got a problem in my mails but now its fixed which reminds me to visit this forums ..

So what now guys?

Ill reread ur comments..

(Im just sending this to pm u all^^)

[BloGGer004]

Ok ; we'll I'm painting a vivid picture of all the parts you would need; but so far I'm only getting smoke patterns... I know you will need an electro magnetic motors ; I know you will need bearings made of copper ; that will be able to conduct electric energy; while also sending a feed back to your computer; I don't know if you can miniaturize the motors I've seen online; I also don't fully know all the gears that will be needed ... But if you have ideas please share with me. $UM.GØD

[i am a God]

hi I'm new here i read all your posts till now so i kind of get it and if you want a test dummy I'll do it

I got an idea from a post on another site you could make a space in between when your feet goes and the wheels go that wear you can put you're wiring can go and maybe even part of the battery that`s about all i got

[i am a God]

 

Air Trecks?

 

I really want a pair of Air Trecks that look exactly like the ones from the show, Air Gear. The only problem is I'm not sure on how to go about doing it. My best solution is to buy aggressive skates and use resin or plastic molding to make them more like Air Trecks. I'm still not sure how to do that or if I would still be able to fit the motors or potentiometers in the skates (oh, I forgot to mention I'm working on actual Air Trecks). I'm also not a good web searcher and I was wondering if anyone could find small motors around 2"x1"x.75" with a good foot-pound ratio. Any suggestions are welcome and please give me all of your thoughts because I'm dead out of them. Thanks guys.

 

07-09-2007, 09:48 PM #2 prismswordsman Registered User

 

Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 23

 

Firstly, you can not buy a pair of skates that look exactly like the ones from the show. Your only chance would be to heavily modify a pair of normal inline skates or pay someone to do it for you.

 

Secondly, actual air treck technology (aka super suspension, tiny motors) does not exist. There is no current motor that could fit in a normal sized skate that could provide the necessary torque to get you moving, and there is no [small] power supply that could power that motor for more than a few minutes.

 

07-13-2007, 03:37 PM #3 Ritsuki_Reji Registered User

 

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2

 

prismswordsman is prolly right, i highly doubt that you could possibly do that, but hey its a good idea right? im actually gunna look into that it sounds like fun lol!

 

07-15-2007, 04:58 PM #4 chris-chan the and only

 

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,328

 

with the right sized battery pack and a good setup, you could get a m

Got from other sites

[Asterne]

Hi everyone. I've been following this topic for a couple of years now (since I was 12 or so and originally found it via google, I believe) and while I have no engineering knowledge, if you have any need for any programming (so as to not make the circuit board do everything itself), I'm here. Although, I would like to propose a rule that we use proper spelling and grammar from this point forward, because even if your points are valid, you're already invalidating them in the eyes of others if you can't properly construct a sentence.

 

What're everyone's thoughts on creating a Google Doc or Spreadsheet to cleanly compile all information instead of having to go through 9 forum pages?

[jelmers]

hey Asterne,

 

great that you are here to help us make air trecks real.

I like you idee of a for a Google Doc or something like it but the spelling and grammar not so, Just becouse my spelling is not so good but I will try my best.

 

Also thanks for your ideas and help.

 

let's make this

[coolhuman]

im interested in this project but have no abilities to make it. but i had a bit of research and came about this. since airtreks are about balance too. it is made so if the rider put its weight to the front it would start to go forward while applying it to back would go backwards. vice versa. so I stumbled upon a web site that may contribute the technology for this project.

 

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/4422853/onewheel-the-self-balancing-electric-skateboard

[JDMar]

Hello everyone! I would like to take the time to go over everything that seems possible today. I believe the first thing we can all agree on is the original design from the anime and/or manga is out, yes? Not only is it theoretically impossible with current technology, but it's full of holes and hardly detailed. Agree? Moving on!

Now, Tenth of November, 2008, smam suggested a load cell. While the concept is there, it doesn't produce enough signal without an amplifier. Since an amplifier would take up extra space, this'll be low on the list. This applies to any other type of weight sensing pad. On it's own, it can't be expected to drive the AT by itself.

CaptainPanic pointed out some very factual information on the eleventh of Febuary, 2009. Even the smallest engines are quite large compared to a roller skate, and you can't abandon ship mid-way. Now, the two problems do pose a threat. The latter can be fixed by careful consideration by both the designer and the user. The user, who should be moderately flexible and wielding a notable amount of strength, should, at speeds at or below 20-30 mph, be able to manually fix any slight differences in speed between the ATs. The former, on the other hand, requires some modification and compromise. Since it is physically impossible to cram an engine into a wheel, we're going to search for a few more ideas.

On the tenth of April, 2009, Redjakal made a comment about syncing the ATs on each foot. While that may seem like a good idea, there is some merit to the anime/manga. You would have to turn while your wheels are tilted. This is very bad for skates such as these. The wieght distrubution on these skates should, at all times, remain centered on the skate. At no point should you be turned sideways. Therefore, the correct way to turn is in an upright position, where one skate is moving in a wide turn or both in opposite directions in a rotation. Of course, this is merely my own thought and speculation on the matter. This may or may not be entirely factual, as I have not done the math.

On the twentyfourth of April, 2009, Captainpanic showed another flaw in this idea(good for you for safety emphasis). The dead man's switch. The dead man's switch would stop the motors in case pressure was released and the weight is set back to, or close enough to, zero. While this also seems like a good idea, it has one fatal flaw itself. You can not jump. Ever. Landing will immediately result in a lot of pain, considering the lag time of electronics. Even though short, you only have to be pushed a little bit, say, with the force of your body going at 10-20 mph with your feet no longer moving with you across the floor, and if this happened even for a few milliseconds, could result in a huge loss of balance and a giant hospital bill. The reason that I see no need to implement it though, is because if one were to fall and one's ATs were to no longer detect pressure, then doesn't that mean that said feet are no longer on the floor? Plus, how are you going to actually skate, when both feet must constantly touch the floor? While this would not be true for all cases, it would be for very many. Once again though, this is my own thoughts and speculation.

Tenshi, on the twentysecond of May, 2009, suggested that two pole DC electric motors be used. Unfortunately, as he states, it would very quickly drain power. This means, since there is a large emphasis on energy conservation, that this is not a heavily wieghted idea.

Sk8tergear, on the twentynineth of July, 2009. . . I'm not even going to go over it, just, wind turbines? Really?

Now Moseshatch sounds like he has done some testing, but as I have no proof of that available, I can't take it for factual evidence, can I? On the twentyfirst of July, 2009, he states that the small air cushion couldn't prevent cracked motors in the wheels. Eight hours later, he states the the motors were no longer in the wheels. Very good idea! These motors should not be in the wheels. Although, to be fair, Moseshatch did claim to be sponsered by alchemy, two years ago. Nothing has been posted about success for two years, so maybe his design wasn't so successful?

Captainpanic, again, on the twentyfirst of May, 2010, noted that it is a bad idea to have the back wheel motorized. This should be taken into account. Motorize th front wheel!

Spitfire, on the twentynineth of July, 2010, suggested an inverted electric motor, but only to satisfy the need to match the anime. Also not very high on the list.

zerokite, on the first of December, 2010, notes that even in the anime, the wheels are large. This is note worthy!

Eyvind, on the twentynineth of March, 2011, very sarcastically, did the math for what is needed for the average, all motor powered stock AT. That is quite a bit of force for a small engine. This is also very important. Completely motorized ATs are not plausible. Boogieman, on the twentyfifth of April, 2011, while not very helpfully, stated something very necessary for continuation. Video of proof of concept. For those who build prototypes, we want videos.

Twintale, on the sixteenth of January, 2012, makes a very long, very logical post. Skating technique, muscle, and skill, are, more than anything, part of this design. An anti-locking mechanism. This was my thoughts when i first read about the dead man's switch. You want one skate to be able to carry the other. That way, you don't need things like synced ATs. You MUST, and this is an absolute MUST, be able to maintain, and brake, at high speeds, without motors. Motors or not, if you can't stop, don't start. The ATs' batteries should also last for quite a bit. Not only that, but it would be nice to have an extra pair that would charge before the current runs out. That way, you can use the skates continually without having to wait for it to charge, as long as you leave the other pair charging on the side. It would also be nice if the could strap in to say, the calf? Easy detachment, easy reattatchment, and it takes a very similar motion to tying your shoes. A battery-saving idea. use it to speed up your skates, not move them for you. They should be designed to make you move faster, not make you move. And finally, aestetics. Make it look good people! Nobody wants a shoe that looks like a motorized brick with wheels.

Captainpanic to the rescue, once again! On the twentythird of January, 2012, he wants to point us "in the right direction (or, rather, point you all away from wrong directions)." His message, take advice! This is not simply digital, this is analog baby! There will be all kinds of signals of different power coursing though your AT, and if you don't understand how it works or what it means, then learn before you make a fool of yourself!

On the third of Febuary, 2012, Twintale notes something important. We do not need that much horsepower! Less money, smaller size, better efficiency! That should be the aim. Pretend we have a budget. the finished project should be under 2,000. Total. We don't want to have to buy a 3,000 dollar battery, nor spend another 2,000 on motors, on top of a 1,000 electronics parts list, then assemble it.

Device, on the seventh of Febuary, 2012, tosses in the idea of glove controls and wristwatch information. While I disagree with the glove controls because 1. I just hate gloves, 2. these would be counter-intuitive, and 3. it uses external devices, no longer making it skates only. Unforetunately, the last one might not be avoidable. I do like the idea of the wrist-watch though. Keep track of your speed, battery, and maybe estimate time left on the skates. Would really be helpful, just so your ATs don't run out on you in the middle of a run. He also mentions the idea of charging while coasting. Not only would the re-routing of power help with brakes, but it would also mean you could theoretically charge your ATs by using them as normal skates. Amazing! Unfortunately, as he states a day later, it would be impractical. The mechanics behind it are too complicated to have fit in an oversized shoe.

On the fourteenth of January, 2013, Twintale comments on why external devices may be necessary. To brake by leaning backwards is pretty risky. trying to shift the weight on your feet to the back of your heel isn't so great an idea either. If you were to try that on normal skates, you'd fall backwards pretty quickly. If you were to try on motorized skates going 20+ mph, you'd possibly die. Having a few buttons at the hip wouldn't be so bad though. Hands free when not in use, doesn't take up too much space, and you don't have to worry about accidentally setting it off. Atleast, as long as you're not hip bumping anything. Also, you're far less likely to fall on it. You're far more likely to fall on your butt, face, and in some cases, your head. He also notes Lithium Polymer Batteries. Form fitting, and lightweight, good for any design. Twintale brings up two ideas, and he also gets it to fall WAY under budget at $250. These ideas are on the top of the list.

Krome X Wong, on the twentysecond of July, 2013, posted a video of a prototype AT. While it did work, he had to hold quite a large battery to get him moving. It also didn't seem to have many of the necessary functions, such as stopping, slowing, speeding, or use as actual skates. Plus the casing! But that was a very nice attempt.

UND3ADSODA mentions on the nineteenth of August, 2013, that people will be attempting to make large jumps regularly. While 20 feet may be a stretch, there will be some VERY high jumps. As such, the cushions must not only be fantastic, but some of the force will have to be transferred to the user. Not only does this prevent attempts for rediculously high jumps because they couldn't feel anything from 10 feet, it reduces stress on the AT. After a certain amount of pressure, if it directed some of the force to the wearer, it would greatly increase longetivity within the AT.

Krome X Wong states, on the fifth of October, 2013, ATs travel faster than cars. That is a no-no. If we want this to actually be legally usable, there will have to be limitations on it. Ikki from Air Gear and others only travel so fast because they broke through the coding in the AT and are doing so illegally. We can't have that. . . Yet.
All of the ideas that have been listed here were what I believed to be worth mentioning for one of two reasons. They are either GOOD and we should either use it or follow it's example, or BAD and we should all stay away from that subject. Especially air powered turbines. Do not attempt anything with air powered turbines.

My own ideas were to have the battery located higher up, maybe behind, under the calf, and be easibly seperable from the rest of the skate, with a little bit of work. We don't want it to be falling off, though. A nice, flexible battery would be great for this, and it would fit into a specified slot on the AT, where skates have little functionality. How about adding some there? Especially in that area, betteries can be MUCH bigger. A hip mounted device to control speed would be nice too. While it takes away from the image of an AT, it's MUCH safer. While speed shouldn't entirely be controlled by that little device, you should be able to slow down, reverse, and power down your ATs so they can be used like normal skates. Legal documents. Even if the idea is not our own, nor would we be able to claim complete rights to it, we must still be responsible for the use and regulations for these kinds of devices. You would NOT be able to ride these on a freeway. Even if you move at the speed of traffic, and you could theoretically ride these for several days, it's a no. Don't go that fast on a street, sidewalk, or public areas. We can't have the fuzz shut us down because we went a bit too fast, right? And finally, user dependant AT capabilities. While I may have not come up with the idea of having the user's ability determine the max speed of an AT, this is the first post I've seen regarding over-all capabilities. Stress from the AT should be put on the user. Not ALL of it, but a percentage. Not only is this more realistic, but it prevents idiots(and trust me, if this becomes a product, many will use it. Notably those who act like they're on Jackass) from trying something far beyond their capability. The AT should also have functionality as normal skates. Because they are, after all, skates.

Thank you if you have stayed with me during this entire post, feel free to make any suggestions, and PLEASE, let's start putting together an entire concept of what this is going to look like.

[jelmers]

wow that is a long read.

thank you

JDMar

for makeing this post. I my self dont know that mutch about engenering but if i can help make this real. tell me what i can do

[JDMar]

Well, as of now, I know very little of the actual progress made by members of this forum, so until some proof of concept(that someone can claim) shows up, I'll consider it very little. Basicly, if you really want to help make this real, learn engineering. The more engineers we have on our team, the better. Plus, having some engineering knowledge in a technological world is a valuable skill, no? I have yet to learn how to use this system properly, so I'm going to be working on uploading a picture of my idea for now. f you could coordinate the other members, find price ranges, etc. that'd be great. Also, if you could keep ideas in line, such as guidelines that ideas should follow, what is good, what is bad, and make sure everyone keeps in mind, nothing will sponsored, nor will it ever become a product, if we do not keep in mind affordability of parts. It has to work for as little money as possible.

[i am a God]

I have bin following this even whean i was 8 10 now and i get whst all you are saying that whay i bring what i got from other places sorry for bad spelling

[coolhuman]

http://www.etotheipiplusone.net/?page_id=700

 

check this out. its a project called razerblade. they nailed it. check it out.

 

for the testing videos, here :

http://techtv.mit.edu/collections/etotheipiplusone/videos/7616-first-ground-test-of-the-razerblades-

http://techtv.mit.edu/collections/etotheipiplusone/videos/7779-razerblades-short-street-testing-run

http://techtv.mit.edu/collections/etotheipiplusone/videos/8015-razerblades-street-testing-

 

i'm not sure how they do it since i'm not an engineer myself. maybe you guys can understand. owh and response to you JDMar take a look. maybe you can see about the possibility. the testing speed is quite slow. and it can also be used as a a normal inline skates. it maintains the speed where you have speed up during normal skates. pardon my english. it doesn't really carry a battery at the back or stored in a backpack. it is all inside the skates itself. about the durability, I'm not really sure. it looks quite fragile as it is. maybe it can be made more smaller or fit in the sole of the skates and uses bigger wheels. maybe 10mm for stability. and also speed is not the problem now. we just have to prove that we can make a skates that is motorized and it is not full with wires cause it will cause people to trip.