Tricking Your Subconscious

[antimatter]

I recently read this article and

 

researchers pinpointed a signal that divulged the decision about seven seconds before people ever realised their choice. The discovery has implications for mind-reading, and the nature of free will.

 

got me wondering; could we be thinking about doing one thing, and then do another? or would it be all planned out in our subconscious so that we can't really do anything 'spontaneously'?

 

Sorry if it's a little vague, I'll try and clarify if someone (or everyone) is confused.

[iNow]

I just read the article you quoted:

 

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/being-human/dn13658-brain-scanner-predicts-your-future-moves.html?feedId=online-news_rss20

 

 

... and I suggest these results are not applicable to the questions you are trying to answer. Also, it appears you are heading toward making an argument for determinism, simply substituting the term subconscious. Is that the case?

[antimatter]

Not really, at least, I don't think so.

The article (the link was in the word 'this', so I did cite it), and it was talking about how the decision is already made, but what if you somehow managed to make a different altogether spontaneous decision, would that be possible?

[iNow]

I don't see why not. They simply asked people sitting inside of an MRI machine to do something with either their left or right hand, whenever the subject wanted to. During this time, they had the subject view some pictures flashing, and had them record what picture they saw when they "decided" on the hand they would use.

 

I say that the application of this data is limited in scope due to the type of question being asked, and also the fact that an MRI machine is not a regular environment in which we find ourselves, so I wasn't surprised to see the prefrontal activity.

[antimatter]

Right, that's true, but I mean more...sort of fighting against your subconscious, subconsciously...

 

It makes one decision ahead of time, and you do something completely different.

[iNow]

How would you even know?

[antimatter]

Well, afterwards when you realized that you clicked on a different link, but that's what I'm saying...sort of...it's your subconscious against your...other subconscious

[iNow]

So, you're now suggesting we have more than one subconscious mind?

[antimatter]

Not really, see, I'm having a little difficulty formulating the ideas in my head into words, please go a little easy on me...

 

I'm saying that maybe we can do something without or subconscious 'knowing', and that's where the 'other subconscious' came in, although that wasn't what I was getting at.

[thedarkshade]

I'm saying that maybe we can do something without or subconscious 'knowing', and that's where the 'other subconscious' came in, although that wasn't what I was getting at.

That would be an instinct I believe.

[antimatter]

Okay, so there's the word that was escaping me at the moment.

 

So would instinct be able to over-rule your subconscious?

[iNow]

Hmmm...

 

The challenge as I see it here is that you are trying to compartmentalize your psyche. There isn't some little box called "subconscious" or "instinct."

 

We are, in each given moment, the collective output of our entire body's aggregate nerve cell firing and dynamic blood flow. How that becomes a decision is subject of very serious inquiry, but those studying it don't use very loose and undefined terms like "subconscious" or "instinct."

 

 

It's a terminology issue. We can discuss the order of activation in cortical regions, we can discuss physical outputs (motion), and we can discuss the processes in between.

 

However, if I may, I suggest that vague and undefined terms like "subconscious" be left out of the discussion, as they lend to more confusion than clarity.

[dichotomy]

I occasionally play 8 ball (pool) with a couple of friends. One thing that we have noticed, as amateurs, is that if we go with our first decision it more often works than going with a revised, or, second decision on what play to make.

 

Perhaps the first decision comes from the subconscious/unconscious and the second decision comes from the conscious? And in this way one could choose to go with either, that’s if one truly begins in the subconscious?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I occasionally play 8 ball (pool) with a couple of friends. One thing that we have noticed, as amateurs, is that if we go with our first decision it more often works than going with a revised, or, second decision on what play to make.

Alternately, you may just remember the cases in which this is true more than cases in which it's false. You could try recording how many times you went with your first or second decision and how well each worked.

[iNow]

Cap'n's right. It's likely the result of perceptual salience, and the only way you will know is to record each and calculate a mean later... see if it differs significantly from chance.

[dichotomy]

Alternately, you may just remember the cases in which this is true more than cases in which it's false. You could try recording how many times you went with your first or second decision and how well each worked.

 

We have done this over a few years. It is not just one observation, it comes from 3 people who have been aware of their first choice (and its accuracy over time), and then selected another choice that failed more often then a first choice that was gone along with. But you are correct in saying that a log book would obviously be a more solid approach...depending on the amount of beer consumed of couse.

 

An article on decision making -

 

"Haynes and colleagues now show that brain activity predicts -- even up to 7 seconds ahead of time -- how a person is going to decide."

 

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080414145705.htm

 

Perhaps after those 7 seconds you can change your mind and more often make the wrong decision?

[antimatter]

I guess this is sort of like breaking away from your sub-conscious and having...two of them...