Mythbusters.

[swansont]

4. I haven't heard them use any "Discovery Channel Units", ever, (volume expressed in [Football stadiums], weight in [Elephants] and length in [boeing 747's])... which I think is fantastic, given the fact that they're on the Discovery Channel.

 

That reminds me — when I visited NIST I forgot to ask to see the standard human hair and standard football field, which are two favorite standards of journalists.

[ydoaPs]

That reminds me — when I visited NIST I forgot to ask to see the standard human hair and standard football field, which are two favorite standards of journalists.

Isn't the standard football field 300 feet?

[SkepticLance]

Yes, but is it 300 feet plus 1.009 inches? Or something else. Standards must be exact and accurate you know.

 

And whose foot are you using as the standard foot? At what age? And where is the standard foot stored? At what temperature?

 

Gotta get it right!

[ydoaPs]

And whose foot are you using as the standard foot?

 

The standard foot?

[Rev Blair]

Isn't the standard football field 300 feet?

 

In Canada it's 330 feet (110 yards). Also, our balls are bigger.

[ecoli]

In Canada it's 330 feet (110 yards). Also, our balls are bigger.

 

your weak Canadian bodies can only handle three downs per possession, however.

[Mr Skeptic]

The standard foot?

 

I think its buried in a royal cemetery in England.

[Pangloss]

I upgraded my sat dish the other day and now I'm getting Mythbusters in HD. Woot.

[bascule]

Good for Science, or not?

 

Not at all. Many of their experiments are frustratingly ad hoc, or total (albeit inadvertent) strawmen of the ideas they're trying to present.

 

On a (somewhat) recent episode they attempted to test out the use of an electrolysis device to inject gaseous hydrogen into your typical Otto engine.

 

Except they forgot (or rather, didn't understand) something critically important: the engine still needs gas to run.

 

The basic underlying principle of these devices is that an electrical current from the alternator is used to separate water into gaseous hydrogen and oxygen. Inject them into the cylinder with gasoline and you get a hotter, more efficient burn. However ultimately the energy driving the entire reaction comes from the gasoline.

 

The MythBusters didn't understand this, and instead tried to drive a gasoline engine *ENTIRELY* on the hydrogen produced through electrolysis. Needless to say IT DIDN'T WORK.

 

I was quite surprised when they got a tank of gaseous hydrogen and were able to run a gasoline engine entirely on it. It was entirely unsurprised when they encountered unexpected flameout that had them leaping away in terror.

[insane_alien]

well, an otto engine can run on anything that'll cause an explosion, you just need an effective delivery system. a petrol engine is close enough so it can run on hydrogen but not very safely. there are ones designed to run on pure hydrogen and they function very well.

 

but the hydrogen injector, is i agree not about boosting through hydrogen(that wouldn't make sense from a second law of thermodynamics point of veiw either.

 

the effect would be noticable on older cars in a fuel consumption reduction and a small performance boost but newer better tuned cars will not notice much difference as the burn is nearing completion(it gets most of the energy out)

[swansont]

Isn't the standard football field 300 feet?

 

A common mistake. 360 feet — everyone always seem to forget the end zones.

[Vexer]

Well bascule, ad hoc is better than no hoc - the Crocodile Hunter's defense.

[DrP]

A common mistake. 360 feet — everyone always seem to forget the end zones.

 

 

What end zones? Or are you talking about that game where they wear body armour, pick the ball up with their hands and stop for a rest every 30 seconds? They should try Rugby mate - mud and blood - no resting, no armour.. Also, what is it with base ball? We have a game similar in the UK called rounders that the girls at primary school play. The real men play cricket!

 

This suggests that a propper footbal pitch can be between 90 to 120m.

[CaptainPanic]

I'm glad someone is pointing out the greatest stupidity of using a football field as a measure for area: they actually all differ in size. (Just like elephants are not all of equal weight).

(Football is the game played with feet and a round ball).

 

At least Boeing 747s can all be expected to be the same length: 70.6 m, (apart from the 747 8I which is 76.4 m).

[ajb]

I'm glad someone is pointing out the greatest stupidity of using a football field as a measure for area: they actually all differ in size. (Just like elephants are not all of equal weight).

(Football is the game played with feet and a round ball).

 

But isn't the point that we all have a feel for the area covered by a typical football pitch, even if they are not all exactly the same size. It is an order of magnitude rather than a measurement of area.

 

I think Mythbusters is fantastic despite the constant use of wrong units. Something they should correct, but I feel it is ok to use objects or other comparisons to give a tangible feel to the magnitudes involved. So saying "same area of a football pitch", "same weight as a small family car" etc. is fine.

[Royston]

There's nothing really stopping us contacting the Mythbusters team with our thoughts. You never know, we could be responsible for adding that extra sciencey rigor to their show.

 

Just a thought.

[CaptainPanic]

But isn't the point that we all have a feel for the area covered by a typical football pitch, even if they are not all exactly the same size. It is an order of magnitude rather than a measurement of area.

 

I think Mythbusters is fantastic despite the constant use of wrong units. Something they should correct, but I feel it is ok to use objects or other comparisons to give a tangible feel to the magnitudes involved. So saying "same area of a football pitch", "same weight as a small family car" etc. is fine.

 

In fact, they generally use numbers with the right units, which is almost unique on the Discovery Channel

[DrP]

I'm glad someone is pointing out the greatest stupidity of using a football field as a measure for area: they actually all differ in size. (Just like elephants are not all of equal weight).

(Football is the game played with feet and a round ball).

 

At least Boeing 747s can all be expected to be the same length: 70.6 m, (apart from the 747 8I which is 76.4 m).

 

 

I agree, but I must admit, I do use my memory of a running track to visualise 100m (that's valid actually as it is 100m, but you get the point I hope). Visualising football pitches or tennis courts is actually quite a good way of estimating/visualising ball park areas. I bet if you said to the average Joe 'visualise 4500m^2' They would say 'WTF??' Whereas if you said 'it's about one football pitch, they would understand. Perhaps this is where the saying ' its just a ball park figure' comes from.

[JohnB]

Sorry to go back to page 1, but Snail I really must protest.

 

Brainiac is full of useful science. Where else can you find out which fruit is best when fired from a backyard mortar? (YT will be looking for that one now.)

 

What happens when you mix Thermite and liquid Nitrogen?

 

What coloured flames do different chemicals burn with? (Usually be filling a caravan with the chemical and blowing it up.)

 

Which is faster, a motorbike, a rocket or a golf ball?

 

Enquiring minds need to know these things.

 

For those looking for some amusing but mindless entertainment, the clips above and others can be found on youtube.

[stingray78]

Of course YES. In fact they give a really interesting approach to science that Universities should copy.

[ydoaPs]

Of course YES. In fact they give a really interesting approach to science that Universities should copy.

 

You're joking, right?

[Vexer]

(Well I would never would have believed you could start a fire with a ball of ice)

[CaptainPanic]

I agree, but I must admit, I do use my memory of a running track to visualise 100m (that's valid actually as it is 100m, but you get the point I hope). Visualising football pitches or tennis courts is actually quite a good way of estimating/visualising ball park areas. I bet if you said to the average Joe 'visualise 4500m^2' They would say 'WTF??' Whereas if you said 'it's about one football pitch, they would understand. Perhaps this is where the saying ' its just a ball park figure' comes from.

 

There is nothing wrong using the football pitch as a comparison (estimating/visualizing). Where it goes wrong is that plenty of popular scientific programs fail even to mention the 4500 m2, they only mention the football pitch.

 

And there are plenty of these units that (in my vocabulary) translate as "wow, a big number, but no idea just how big". Take the weight of the Boeing 747 (no clue, have to boot my pc, and check wikipedia), the volume of the Wembley stadium in London (again clueless, is that the volume inside the structure? Is that the total surface area multiplied by the average height?)... etc.

 

Failing to mention the actual number and the correct units is always wrong.

 

Which (coming back to the Mythbusters) is what the mythbusters do right: they either mention nothing at all (because they don't know), or they do give numbers and units.

[Calabi-Yau]

Yes. And no, as they provide some decent myths, and the physics behind them, though alot of them are most definitley not orientated towards Scientific purposes, but towards those of entertainment. Some have nothing to do with Science at all!

Ultimately, it may draw people to interest to science, but may also do nothing for it at all, even slight it due to the 'brute-force' manner in which experiments are carried out.

[SkepticLance]

I like what the mythbusters are doing.

 

In my very humble opinion, the core of science is scepticism leading to the requirement to test everything. Human knowledge was based largely on very muddy thinking until the 17th Century, when luminaries such as Isaac Newton and Francis Bacon taught the need to obtain empirical evidence. That is, test everything by experiment or novel observation.

 

The mythbusters are showing this process in being sceptical of widely held beliefs and then testing those beliefs with experiment. You might be scathing about the quality of their experiments, but they are dealing with the general public and are doing what every good educator does. Start with the basics.