Ape Evolution

[iNow]

Altruistic behavior seems to have appeared well before apes did.

 

 

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-10/nsf-bgb100208.php

Beetles get by with a little help from their friends

 

Cooperation between insects and bacteria suggests inter-species collaboration may be common in many ecosystems

 

Humans living in communities often rely on friends to help get what they need and, according to researchers in the lab of Cameron Currie at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, many microbes, plants and animals benefit from 'friendly' associations too.

 

The Currie team's study, which was funded by the National Science Foundation (NSF) and published in the Oct. 3, 2008, issue of the journal Science, describes the complex relationship between a beetle, two types of tree fungus and a bacterium that aids in their struggle to survive and thrive.

 

Research in the Currie lab revealed that adult beetles have a specialized compartment in their bodies used to store two other organisms: a slow-growing beneficial fungus that serves as a food source and a bacterium that produces a unique, newly discovered antibiotic. Interestingly, the antibiotic inhibits the growth of a fast-growing competitor fungus but does not affect the slow-growing beneficial fungus.

 

Before laying eggs in tree bark, adult female beetles spread the slow-growing, beneficial fungus and bacteria around the area where they will deposit the eggs. The antibiotic from the bacteria prevents growth of the fast-growing competitor fungus but does not harm the slow-growing beneficial fungus, which continues to grow and provide a rich source of nutrition for the developing beetle larvae.

 

"There are perhaps 10 million species of insects on the planet," says Currie, an evolutionary biologist. "So, if insects associate with bacteria like this more generally, then there's potentially a huge number of new places to explore."

 

NSF Program Officer Lita Proctor agrees, saying this research, which was co-authored by Jon Clardy of Harvard Medical School, has important implications for the ecosystems these species occupy.

 

"It may be that some organisms evolved symbioses (cooperative relationships) as a strategy to give them an advantage over others when competing for resources," said Proctor. "These cooperative relationships may be much more common than we thought."

 

In-depth study of these interactions could also lead to identification of new types of antibiotics or other chemicals which may have agricultural or medicinal uses. Thus in the future, we may get by with help from our little friends.

[BlackPower]

I read some of this, not all of it, and i am not going to. but just out of curiosity......does anyone here not believe that we desended from apes (or are modern apes -whateverhaveyou)? And I dont mean from a creationist point either. It seems that argument over our beginning always has to come from creation and evolution views. What if we are missing something huge over this bickering? Im high, and just thinking.

[trukrguy]

Black Power..... I have been looking for good solid info re our 'descension' from apes. It seems that much of the info has been debunked by the 'intelligent design' community.

[SkepticLance]

trucker

The 'intelligent design community' has attempted to debunk, but failed miserably, simply because they are not scientists and what they push is not science. Their ideas are from a particular interpretation of a specific religious text - not from science. There are no 'intelligent design' biologists who are not also strongly religious.

[Paralith]

I read some of this, not all of it, and i am not going to. but just out of curiosity......does anyone here not believe that we desended from apes (or are modern apes -whateverhaveyou)? And I dont mean from a creationist point either. It seems that argument over our beginning always has to come from creation and evolution views. What if we are missing something huge over this bickering? Im high, and just thinking.

 

The body evidence supporting the existence of a common ancestor between chimpanzees/bonobos and humans approximately 6 - 7 million years ago is large and stemming from multiple fields of analysis. If nothing else, do a search on hominid fossils and you'll find an average progression of forms leading up to anatomically modern humans.

[Edtharan]

does anyone here not believe that we desended from apes

I don't believe that we descended from Apes. But by that I mean I am not basing my opinion in belief.

 

From the evidence (fossils, genetics, evolution, etc, etc, etc) the most likely conclusion is that we did descend from Apes.

 

My opinion (that we did indeed descend from Apes) is based not on belief, but on evidence.

[Phi for All]

I read some of this, not all of it, and i am not going to.

This is why evolution gets misrepresented by those who misunderstand it.

[SkepticLance]

Those who oppose evolution often think evolutionists claim descent from modern apes. Of course, we are descended from rather more ancient apes, which are common ancestors. Indeed, humans are still apes, even if religious arrogance refuses to accept it.

[BlackPower]

Phi For ALL: first of all, this thread is not an evoution tutorial. I would not become a qualified evolutionist by reading this thread, so please ease the **** up off of my nuts.

 

 

And if you guys think that you are apes, by all means: please continue this belief. If science was founded by apes, I dont think it would be very credible (not saying that it isnt). I'm just saying: I aint no monkey. Until i see monkeys build houses and go to work everyday, I wont buy it. If you guys think you are, thats on you.

 

Now before you virgins try to "adapt" a new asshole on me and label me a creationist (just because i refuse to believe that i am {still?} a monkey) - think of the notion that there is just as much scientific arrogance as there is religious, if not more. All I am saying is that we are possibly looking at things from a completely wrong angle. I mean hell, it's happened before. I believe we know way less about science than we think we do. And personally I think that we will never understand these mysteries of our beginning. After all we, are just a product of it, not part of the creating (thats right: creating) force (weather nature, or God). Our brains are very limited in understanding the big picture and of the origins of everything. How can we understand nature if we are just a very very very unimportant part of it, and not above it? I think our heads would explode before we even learned a small fraction of what things really are.

[Klaynos]

BlackPower, I've only read your above post and a few comments...

 

You can't just pick and choose the bits of a scientific theory you like...

 

Apes and monkeys are not the same thing... this simple flaw in your logic makes me just think you know nothing and any other comment you have to make is completely worthless.

 

Evolution has such a massive backing of evidence it is unbelievable, nearly as unbelievable as some peoples ability to realise that they are infact not special, but just another animal that's found a rather successful niche.

[Sayonara]

Phi For ALL: first of all, this thread is not an evoution tutorial. I would not become a qualified evolutionist by reading this thread, so please ease the **** up off of my nuts.

Chillax.

 

And if you guys think that you are apes, by all means: please continue this belief. If science was founded by apes, I dont think it would be very credible (not saying that it isnt). I'm just saying: I aint no monkey. Until i see monkeys build houses and go to work everyday, I wont buy it. If you guys think you are, thats on you.

Humans belong to the family Hominidae, along with chimps, gorillas, and orangutans. There are no monkeys which belong to that family; only the great apes. This is how humans are classified taxonomically - "belief" in that classification is not required. By all means you may not wish to subscribe to that system of classification, but if you want to actively object to it then providing a reasoned alternative system will help people to see your point of view.

 

Now before you virgins try to "adapt" a new asshole on me and label me a creationist (just because i refuse to believe that i am {still?} a monkey) - think of the notion that there is just as much scientific arrogance as there is religious, if not more.

It's up to you as the reader to discern the content of the message from the tone.

 

All I am saying is that we are possibly looking at things from a completely wrong angle. I mean hell, it's happened before. I believe we know way less about science than we think we do. And personally I think that we will never understand these mysteries of our beginning. After all we, are just a product of it, not part of the creating (thats right: creating) force (weather nature, or God). Our brains are very limited in understanding the big picture and of the origins of everything. How can we understand nature if we are just a very very very unimportant part of it, and not above it? I think our heads would explode before we even learned a small fraction of what things really are.

In the face of all that exists it is easy to feel dwarfed and awed by the vast complexity and variety of the... everything. Easy and also justifiable. We might not know the merest fraction yet of the nature of the universe, but we can and will continue trying. The scientific method has, historically, had the best track record for discriminating between fact and fantasy. Until something which is demonstrably better comes along, as a species we'll keep using it.

[Klaynos]

tbh I'd rather be associated with the modern apes than alot of the humans I meet...

[BlackPower]

Apes and monkeys are not the same thing... this simple flaw in your logic makes me just think you know nothing and any other comment you have to make is completely worthless.

 

 

Please explain to me the how an ape is not a monkey.

 

tbh I'd rather be associated with the modern apes than alot of the humans I meet...

 

That makes me wonder how many humans you physiclly meet.... Did you get picked on in school?

[Sayonara]

Please explain to me the how an ape is not a monkey.

Apes and monkeys belong to the infraorder Simiiformes. The groups are biologically and reproductively distinct, with the last split between monkeys and apes occurring some 25 million years ago.

[BlackPower]

thank you.

[SkepticLance]

BlackPower

There are many very clear lines of evidence that show humans are apes.

1. The fossil record. Enough intermediate fossils in the human family tree have been found to show our relationship to apes.

2. Morphology. The human form and the ape form have an enormous amount in common. That is no coincidence.

3. Comparitive genetics. The human and the chimp genomes have been worked out. We share about 98% of our genes. That is a close relationship, showing we belong to the same family.

4. Embryology. Human and ape fetuses undergo almost exactly the same set of developmental changes, until late in the process of growth.

[BlackPower]

^^^^^^^^^^all may be true. but you have to agree that the woman in my avatar dosent look much like an ape.

[iNow]

 

 

She IS an ape, so she DOES look like one... as do you... as do I... as does every other human on the planet. She's got great features, but she's still an ape just like the rest of us.

[Paralith]

Universal shoulder joint, relatively short lumbar region, no tail, broad ribcage - looks like an ape to me.

[BlackPower]

anyways............it seems i am successful in creating arguments, but no one really answered my original question.

 

 

 

I read some of this, not all of it, and i am not going to. but just out of curiosity......does anyone here not believe that we desended from apes (or are modern apes -whateverhaveyou)? And I dont mean from a creationist point either. It seems that argument over our beginning always has to come from creation and evolution views. What if we are missing something huge over this bickering? Im high, and just thinking.

[SkepticLance]

BlackPower

You avatar, she ape. Me ape. Me like she. Me pound chest and yell at moon. Owwooo.

[Paralith]

I read some of this, not all of it, and i am not going to. but just out of curiosity......does anyone here not believe that we desended from apes (or are modern apes -whateverhaveyou)? And I dont mean from a creationist point either. It seems that argument over our beginning always has to come from creation and evolution views. What if we are missing something huge over this bickering? Im high, and just thinking.

 

The body evidence supporting the existence of a common ancestor between chimpanzees/bonobos and humans approximately 6 - 7 million years ago is large and stemming from multiple fields of analysis. If nothing else, do a search on hominid fossils and you'll find an average progression of forms leading up to anatomically modern humans.

 

I suggest you start actually reading all of the responses given to you, since several of us have indeed answered your question. No, we are not missing something huge. Aliens did not come down and genetically engineer us or anything like that.

[Phi for All]

anyways............it seems i am successful in creating arguments, but no one really answered my original question.

You are successful at prolonging arguments.

 

... does anyone here not believe that we desended from apes (or are modern apes -whateverhaveyou)?

It would seem there isn't anyone here who doesn't believe that we descended from apes.

 

Your other question, "What if we are missing something huge over this bickering?" is identical to a well-known creationist ploy, that of questioning one of the most well-founded, thoroughly researched scientific theories EVER, and then claiming there is a controversy. We aren't missing anything, because the "bickering" half of this "controversy" has nothing to back it up.

 

In fact, the bickering half rarely even reads what the other half writes.

[BlackPower]

I was trying to see if anyone had any other ideas besides creation and evolution. To me it seems creationists and evolutionists are one and the same. Both ideas sound good. Both have their own flaws. Both seem to believe in their theories without a doubt. Both are extreamly narrow minded. Both promote and represent their theories to the fullest (as I look at alot of your sigs). Both parties continue to push their ideas on their opponents and call one another fools. And don't lie to me and tell me that you guys don't bicker. If I came in here spitting some creationist ideas this thread would be about 30 pages long. And please don't tell me my question is identical to some creationist ploy. It is not even about that. I'm just trying to see who thinks what up in here. See if there are any open minded people in here. And nah I dont believe that aliens came down and created life or whatever, lol. Although some people do. (tom cruise)

[iNow]

No. Sorry. Evolution and creationism are not on the same footing.

 

One is an idea based only on iron age fairy tales and the propogation of lies.

The other is based on mountains of evidence and successful passing of tests and empirical research across multiple scientific modalities.

 

 

You are living proof at just how effective the lie campaign has been by the religiots.