Ape Evolution

[Paralith]

I was trying to see if anyone had any other ideas besides creation and evolution. To me it seems creationists and evolutionists are one and the same. Both ideas sound good. Both have their own flaws. Both seem to believe in their theories without a doubt. Both are extreamly narrow minded. Both promote and represent their theories to the fullest (as I look at alot of your sigs). Both parties continue to push their ideas on their opponents and call one another fools. And don't lie to me and tell me that you guys don't bicker. If I came in here spitting some creationist ideas this thread would be about 30 pages long. And please don't tell me my question is identical to some creationist ploy. It is not even about that. I'm just trying to see who thinks what up in here. See if there are any open minded people in here. And nah I dont believe that aliens came down and created life or whatever, lol. Although some people do. (tom cruise)

 

I'm sorry BlackPower, but you are using arguments like those of creationists, whether or not that is your intention. My apologies if I offend, but the creationist argument is based on ignorance and a failure to consider all the evidence. You do not appear to have a good background in evolution and the huge, I repeat huge body of evidence body of evidence supporting it and the conclusions drawn from it, such as the fact that humans and modern apes share a common ancestor. And in fact, biologists are not closed minded. Our understanding of evolution has advanced and changed significantly from the time it was first formulated, because we took into consideration new evidence and knowledge every time such things were found.

[BlackPower]

LOL. I wonder how a creationist would respond to that. Probably say the same thing reversed. Anyways, thanks for proving my point apeman!

 

^^^^^^that wasnt for you paralith, it was for Inow. And no offense taken. It's not even that Im doubting evolution. And yes, i do not know much about it but i do get the idea. And yes i know the ideas have changed from day one, and i am sure they will change even more from day now.

[Phi for All]

I was trying to see if anyone had any other ideas besides creation and evolution. To me it seems creationists and evolutionists are one and the same.

The main difference is the observation, experimentation, and subsequent evidence accumulated by science compared to the "belief" of creationism.

 

Both ideas sound good. Both have their own flaws. Both seem to believe in their theories without a doubt.

Evolution is a scientific theory, creationism is an idea. The two are not even remotely close to one another, theory and idea.

 

Both are extreamly narrow minded.

Science doesn't rely on belief, but rather on evidence and testing, so it isn't subject to narrow-mindedness.

 

Both promote and represent their theories to the fullest (as I look at alot of your sigs).

A theory is NOT an idea. A theory has been tested and tested over time, and is capable of being wrong. Creationism can't say the same thing, since it can never be proven to be false. That's a tough concept but an important one. If evolution were refuted, science would be open to a better theory.

 

Both parties continue to push their ideas on their opponents and call one another fools.

Evolution isn't an idea. It's a theory. I'm going to keep saying this until you understand that it's not just something Darwin thought of and everyone else is too lazy to refute. There have been hundreds of thousands of people who have tried to refute evolution and they have never convinced a peer review.

 

And don't lie to me and tell me that you guys don't bicker. If I came in here spitting some creationist ideas this thread would be about 30 pages long.

We have refuted the same creationist claims from virtually every creationist who has ever posted. The evidence is always ignored, and the creationists NEVER bother to read the links we supply, or even to take a biology course where evolution is explained.

 

And please don't tell me my question is identical to some creationist ploy. It is not even about that.

It IS identical. "Teach the controversy" is a well-known intelligent design slogan. I made a factual observation, no matter how much it might not be your intention. Edited October 7, 2008 by Phi for All
clarification

[Paralith]

And yes i know the ideas have changed from day one, and i am sure they will change even more from day now.

 

Indeed. If evidence in support of "something huge" that we were previously unaware of is found, then it will be given all due attention, and if it calls for a change in existing theory, then the change will be made. But what we've been telling you in this thread is based on all the evidence we have, and that is no small amount.

[Kyrisch]

I don't think the interspersion of insults in your responses will get you very popular around here, Blackpower... I suggest to you the same thing I always suggest to anyone who claims that science and religion are on equal footing. Without the evidence, they are -- but it is the evidence that gives science so much sway. Do some research. Spend a few hours learning about evolution and the evidence there is for it before you comment with such a knowing air.

[Edtharan]

I was trying to see if anyone had any other ideas besides creation and evolution. To me it seems creationists and evolutionists are one and the same. Both ideas sound good. Both have their own flaws. Both seem to believe in their theories without a doubt. Both are extreamly narrow minded. Both promote and represent their theories to the fullest (as I look at alot of your sigs). Both parties continue to push their ideas on their opponents and call one another fools. And don't lie to me and tell me that you guys don't bicker. If I came in here spitting some creationist ideas this thread would be about 30 pages long. And please don't tell me my question is identical to some creationist ploy. It is not even about that. I'm just trying to see who thinks what up in here. See if there are any open minded people in here. And nah I dont believe that aliens came down and created life or whatever, lol. Although some people do. (tom cruise)

If you only focus on the behaviours of the individuals, then yes, the behaviours of the two sides is similar. But this is to be expected, they are engaging in a debate, and since they are engaging in the same behaviour (a debate), then naturally their behaviours will be similar.

 

You know, I have seen people acting like that over football teams, dose this mean that football teams are the same as evolution or creationism?

 

What you have to look at is not the behaviours of the people (theyare engaged in the same activity after all, but instead look at the evidence that they present about their arguments.

 

Creationists don't present any reliable evidence (that is the "evidence" is based off opinions). However, Scientists use experimentation (ie reality checks) as their evidence.

 

Science says that: If we can demonstrate that this phenomena occurs in reality, then it is good evidence that it does occur in reality.

 

This is the difference between the two arguments. And it is a big difference.

 

I agree that the behaviours of (some) people in the Evolution/Creationism debate are similar, but just because they have similar behaviours, does not make the arguments the same.

 

Again, let me demonstrate:

 

If you saw a person in a Hawaiian shirt giving money to a Busker (street musician) in the street, could you then conclude that the behaviour of wearing a Hawaiian shirt means that all people who wear Hawaiian shirts is to give money to Buskers?

 

This is a logical fallacy, that you assume that because one (or a few) aspect(s) of a situation are similar, then any situations that share those same aspects must therefore have all of their aspects the same?

 

Here is it: Package Deal Fallacy (link to wikipedia)