Aether Wave II

[Zephir]

Time slows down slightly even when the object is moving by subluminal speed and the contemporary physics has no explanation for this, because this phenomena is direct consequence of constant light speed postulate. Therefore every causal explanation goes beyond relativity and mainstream science as such (which even doesn't permit the motion by superluminal speed), therefore it cannot be answered by causal way in strictly mainstream science forum, where the only relevant answer is the derivation of time dilatation from Lorentz symmetry postulate.

 

The Aether Wave Theory (AWT) provides a simple explanation based on assumption, the vacuum is behaving like dense foam, composed of dynamic network of nested density fluctuations, similar to density fluctuations of condensing supercritical fluid (the AWT considers, the Universe is formed by interior of giant dense fluctuations of Aether, similar to black hole). Such foam gets more dense temporarily after introducing of energy by the same way, like soap foam during shaking.

 

Furthermore, the object, which is moving fast through vacuum creates so called deBroglie wave around it, which spreads by luminal speed, it's perpendicular to motion direction and it's making the vacuum surrounding the particle more dense. The formation of such wave is analogous to wave, created above fast moving fish, swimming beneath the surface. This wave is making the vacuum more dense around object and inside such vacuum the energy spreading is slower, therefore the time slows down by the same way, like inside the vacuum near massive object, which is more dense too (compare the gravitational lensing phenomena).

 

This explanation is close to Bohm's "pilot wave" interpretation of quantum mechanics and it's the reason of many other phenomena, for example the formation of flabelliform pattern during so called double-slit experiment and other quantum mechanics and relativity phenomena.

[swansont]

What, pray tell, is "subliminal space" and how does one move by it?

[Zephir]

What, pray tell, is "subliminal space" and how does one move by it?

Supposedly the temporal result of "subluminal speed" phrase, which was misspelled by spell checker and which I corrected later.

 

Sorry for inconveniences.

 

The AWT doesn't allow any object to move by superluminal speed either by the same way, like virtually no wave can move along water surface by higher speed, then the speed of surface water waves allows in fact and nothing strange is about from wave mechanics perspective. Therefore during photon collisions (where the mutual speed violates the light speed limit apparently) so called spontaneous symmetry breaking occurs under formation of new foamy phase with hidden dimension (i.e. the particle-antiparticles pair), which is analogous the foamy caps formation during surface wave spreading, when the speed of water wave exceeds the surface wave speed. So we can say, every particle of matter is the piece of more dense foam inside of vacuum foam, which is analogous to piece of foam flowing on the water surface after wave collision and breaking.

 

 

If we consider this, then the time dilatation in vacuum doesn't differ from time dilatation, which can be observed at the water surface, where both time and space remains strictly derived from surface wave spreading, as this simple DHTML applet or animation illustrates. The only difference between the light spreading through vacuum and the surface wave spreading is, we have no reference wave for indirect observation of light spreading available (we cannot observe the light wave by using of another wave, like during observation of surface wave). We should realize, when observing the surface wave spreading by light wave, we have a two kinds of waves involved in experiment, while during light wave spreading in vacuum only one kind of waves is involved in experiment in fact, so that the perceived result of light wave spreading can never become quite equivalent to surface wave spreading. Under such consideration, the relativity phenomena doesn't differ from surface wave phenomena, until the surface wave remains solely by surface tension driven (which isn't the case of water waves longer then 1.27 cm).

 

Therefore the simplest answer of question "why the time dilates for object in motion?" can sound "because we are measuring this time by the same wave, which is serving for motion speed measurement" - and no other assumptions are required, because every mechanical wave is behaving by the same way, in fact. When such wave is forced to move faster, it fragments itself into foam, i.e. into many curved surfaces, so that the constant wave speed is retained locally.

 

Therefore every fast moving object in vacuum is generating a wave-like distortion of space-time around it, resulting into formation of less or move dense blob of vacuum foam around it, which A) slows down the energy spreading and the local time for such object B) makes such object relatively heavier (so called "relativistic mass") C) interacts with double slit and other obstacles under formation of flabelliform patterns as so called "pilot wave". Note that the relativistic mass increasing cannot be detected, when we will move together with object weighted, simply because the mass is relative quantity and our motion will increase our mass too by the same mechanism (we will be surrounded by dense blob of vacuum by the same way, like the object weighted, so we will not detect any difference in mass). From AWT follows, so called the "rest mass" of every massive object is caused by unidirectional expansion of Universe, when every object is moving "at place" and the massive objects are expanding slightly faster, then the vacuum. This expansion has many other predictable consequences, which belongs outside the scope of this topic.

 

 

If you understood this model, try to derive some testable predictions of it. For example, we know, the surface wave speed depends on the depth, i.e. the proximity of other massive objects. Therefore the shallow waves have tendency to fragmentize itself into "particles", when approaching the coastal area.

 

 

What will happen, if some fast moving object approaches the another massive object, where the local time goes more slowly already? In which device such effect is used?

[swansont]

Moved from relativity.

 

Zephir: the previous thread on this was closed because you did not engage in meaningful discussion about it. The same circumstances apply here. This will be left open for now.

 

Continued hijacking of other threads with this material will result in more infractions being issued.

[pioneer]

Most explanations get either intuitively fuzzy or more complicated than it has to be because of one bad assumption. Changing that assumption makes it easier and very simple to see. The better assumption has to do with time being a type of semi-potential with a direct connection to energy. In the photon, the time potential is contained in that little perpetual packet call frequency. The photon holds that time potential until it can cause a change of state. The C reference of energy keeps time potential in deep freeze until needed.

 

With SR, if we start at stationary reference, there is no time affect that is different than stationary reference. We need to add energy to get things up to speed before we see anything. We are not just adding energy, we are also adding time potential. The net affect it takes longer to use up this extra time potential, since the time potential needs to be processed using the same laws of physics. To slow the moving reference down, we need to put on the brakes and remove energy. This causes us to remove time potential which may radiate away as heat. The time potential in the heat may cause other changes of state. The final reference now has less time potential so it doesn't last as long based on the processing rate of the laws of physics.

 

It seems too simple to be true. We tend to like something far more exotic that puts the brain into abstraction leaving holes in the mind.

[Zephir]

Moved from relativity....Continued hijacking of other threads with this material will result in more infractions being issued.

Hi, swansont,

 

I can understand you completely, but the question "why the time slows down for object in motion" cannot be answered by logical way without proposal of some proprietary model. Simply because the mainstream science answers follows directly from special relativity postulates, which aren't explained so far. So that every else answer is just a speculation.

 

Or can you show me, how to explain this phenomena by "your way", i.e. at scope of contemporary theories? Unfortunately, as we can expect easily, the people are interested just about these answers, which the mainstream science has left unanswered.

 

So it's just the problem of yours, if you're keeping such questions (which are even speculating about superluminal speed, which doesn't fall within respected mainstream theories) in mainstream science forum - not mine. I don't want make problems to anybody - I'm just presenting my point here like many others, because I believe, my approach is simple and it's able to explain a number of phenomena by consistent way.

[YT2095]

the people are interested just about these answers, which the mainstream science has left unanswered.

 

Fine, but that`s NOT license to just make stuff up to fill said void either!

[Zephir]

...but that`s NOT license to just make stuff up to fill said void either..

Did you understood for example the string net liquid model? Or spin foam concept of LQG theory?

 

Can you realize, what can be explained by it? Well, and the AWT just explains, how to explain these models. The behavior of foam is well known and definitely more opened to intuitive understanding, then some abstract "string net liquid" or "spin foam".

 

Do you consider these concepts void? If not, why the AWT foam? Is the "string net liquid" less abstract for you, then normal foam?

 

...we tend to like something far more exotic that puts the brain into abstraction leaving holes in the mind....

This is perfectly true just at the case of Aether theory, which was abandoned before years due the trivial misunderstanding of dense matter behavior. The people are still very religious creatures, they tend to believe, not to understand. We can analyze the thinking of medieval era easily by the contemporary public stance attitude towards the Aether question.

[YT2095]

Do you consider these concepts void?

 

the Void I spoke of was that of the questions unanswered that You mentioned.

if you Cannot comprehend such a simple contextual reference as that, what hope your Hypothesis?

[Zephir]

the Void I spoke of was that of the questions unanswered that You mentioned.

The question was "why the time slows down for object in motion".

My answer was "this is because the vacuum is behaving like foam, which gets more dense during shaking due the object motion". When the object is dragged through inertial environment, it makes undulations in it by the same way, like ferret dragged through air. More dense vacuum slows down the energy spreading, therefore it slows down the local clock, relevant for this object. I.e. it slows down local time of object.

 

 

I admit, you can still find many steps of such explanation ad-hoced at the first sight - but not out of the trivial logic of common human experience.

[YT2095]

yeah ok, you keep playing dodge-ball then...

 

which the mainstream science has left unanswered.

unanswered = the Void I referred to! *sigh*

[Zephir]

...you keep playing dodge-ball then...

Just try to keep the subject, this is not social club. And the subject is Aether Wave Theory. You can read some of my previous posts here or in another forums to understand better the motivations of this concept.

 

You're not required to agree with anything here, but you're always expected to support your stance by some relevant argument(s), so that the subsequent question "Why do you think so?" will never be necessary.

[Klaynos]

You're not required to agree with anything here, but you're always expected to support your stance by some relevant argument(s), so that the subsequent question "Why do you think so?" will never be necessary.

 

You've not done this though, or addressed any of the questions asked of you in other threads, so until you do, I would rather not take part in this.

[swansont]

The question was "why the time slows down for object in motion".

My answer was "this is because the vacuum is behaving like foam, which gets more dense during shaking due the object motion". When the object is dragged through inertial environment, it makes undulations in it by the same way, like ferret dragged through air. More dense vacuum slows down the energy spreading, therefore it slows down the local clock, relevant for this object. I.e. it slows down local time of object.

 

 

I admit, you can still find many steps of such explanation ad-hoced at the first sight - but not out of the trivial logic of common human experience.

 

It sounds like you have absolute motion, but time dilation is symmetric. Why does the non-moving object experience time dilation? You can, of course, bypass the time dilation explanation and explain why c is a constant in all inertial frames, because dilation follows from it.

[Zephir]

...you've not done this though, or addressed any of the questions asked of you in other threads....

My threads were closed pretty quickly so far.

 

..it sounds like you have absolute motion, but time dilation is symmetric...

The absolute reference frame is still pretty weak due the immense mass/energy density of vacuum. The higher density of environment, the more is the transversal character of waves pronounced. The spreading of tiny waves (so called the capillary waves of wavelength bellow 1.7 cm) at the water surface is driven by surface tension nearly completely, the water surface is behaving like thin elastic membrane and the spreading of such wave is affecter by the underwater motion very slowly.

 

The AWT approach is based on extrapolation of this behavior up to extremely high energy densities.

 

... why does the non-moving object experience time dilation?....

Such object can experience dilation only at the presence of strong gravity field, which is behaving like sparse blob of more dense vacuum surrounding every massive object and slowing all phenomena, involving the transfer and exchange of energy. Simply speaking, the gravitational lensing is not optical illusion, it's the place, where all energy (including light) is spreading more slowly, so that the time is "slowing" here too.

 

 

I can't understand, why people developing spacecrafts and computer programs are having so big troubles with understanding and acceptation of this simple, if not primitive model. Isn't the gravitational lensing a sort of optical refraction phenomena? Isn't every optical lens working by such way, just because the light is spreading more slowly inside it? If so, why is so difficult to understand, the light is really spreading more slowly inside of gravitational lens with respect to its neighborhood?

 

This is no rocket science, but one of the most trivial and simple connections in physics at all. Why it makes so big problem to comprehend it in its full extent? It's as easy, as it is.

[Klaynos]

You replied many times in this thread: http://www.scienceforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=31964

 

You're right it's not rocket science, it's not science!

 

"absolute reference frame" If you're going to say that you REALLY are going to have to give some evidence for it.

[Zephir]

.. it's not science!...

Maybe yes, maybe not. We should decide first, if it can be true.

This is what the scientist is supposed to ask for.

..some evidence for it...

Absolute reference frame was observed already by Doppler shift of CMB.

[swansont]

Absolute reference frame was observed already by Doppler shift of CMB.

 

That's not an absolute frame, though.

[Zephir]

That's not an absolute frame, though.

I'm not saying it is. It's a manifestation of it, which can be detected everywhere. By the same way, the Doppler shift at the water surface isn't fixed point at the bottom of river. It's just and indicia, such point exists somewhere.

 

The gravitational field is the direct consequence of Universe expansion. By relativity theory (the geometrodynamic theory in particular) every particle formed by gravitational waves (so called geon) should be forced to collapse into singularity. The expansion of Universe prohibits it.

 

By reciprocal (dual) way of quantum mechanic, every particle formed by probability wave should expand into infinity (this is steady state solution of Schrödinger equation for free particles, which isn't difficult to derive). The gravitational force prohibits such destiny, but the gravity can not be derived from quantum mechanics by any way and we can see, the same result can be achieved by omnidirectional collapse of universe.

 

If so, how the gravitational field appears, after then? We can imagine, the Universe collapses together with observable matter. But the matter is collapsing more slowly, being pre-collapsed and "more stiff" by such way. The subtle difference in space-time expansion near observable matter is the gravitational field.

 

 

We can observe the difference between matter and vacuum collapse speed by dilatation of iridium meter prototype, by weight loss of iridium meter prototype or by fading of standard supernovae candles with time (which has lead into finding of the acceleration of universe expansion), for example. So we can say, the omnidirectional Universe expansion is not just source of gravity, it's a source of "dark energy" as well.