Question for our left-side-driving members

[Pangloss]

I was driving to work today right after browing the forum, and it occured to me to wonder about this: Do local laws permit you guys to proceed with a left turn on a red light?

 

When I was growing up in Georgia right-on-red turns were illegal (though I think that's changed since I moved to Florida) -- in Florida they're legal, though you have to come to a full stop first (though most people don't bother). I guess the idea is that since you're turning into the lane that's right there and don't have to cross any other traffic, either oncoming or tangential, it's relatively safe, so long as the cross-road traffic coming from our left (your right) is clear at the moment.

 

Which I guess is the same for you guys, just reveresed, eh?

 

(Yes, I wonder about such things. I'm weird that way.)

[bascule]

I turn left on red all the time... at intersections in multiple one way streets...

[YT2095]

no, red light means stop regardless.

[insane_alien]

yeah, red light means stop always. however, there are sometimes filter lanes that will allow you to go(usually has its own green light on the traffic signal, when that is green and you are in the lane, you can go but the other lanes must wait for their green light.

[iNow]

I don't think that Pangloss meant "without stopping." Here in the States, at a red light, you can come to complete stop and turn "Right on Red" unless otherwise posted.

 

 

As an interested aside, we CAN make a left on red (unless otherwise posted) in the States, so long as you are turning FROM a one-way street ONTO another one-way street.

 

 

But I must agree... stopping really does take some of the fun out of it. I'd rather turn using the hand brake and modulation of the accelerator pedal.

[Klaynos]

You wouldn't be allowed to do that in the UK, the USA is the only place I've ever heard of that rule being true, but I've never investigated that much, if you cross a red light in the UK you're breaking the law no matter what way you're turning.

[YT2095]

I don't think that Pangloss meant "without stopping."

 

HUH?

what we (Insane alien and I) said is the Facts, it means you STOP, you do not move! at all! ever.

unless the lights say otherwise.

 

perhaps our posts were Too concise for you?

[iNow]

perhaps our posts were Too concise for you?

No, I'm clearly just the dumbest **** on this site. Thanks for clarifying. I've never been to the UK, nor have I studied their traffic laws.

[Pangloss]

Interesting! Thanks for the answers.

 

Sounds like they considered the possibility (i.e. they realize it's "relatively" safe), but consider it still too dangerous. I wonder if part of the reason for that may lie in the nature of intersections and visibility. I know that when I came down here to Florida I was just amazed at the vast distances and clear sightlines that were available compared with typical driving in hilly, curvy Atlanta (where such turns were not allowed). And of course London in particular is a very old city, and I imagine that intersections might be very tight and crowded. Just guessing, though.

 

We have "filter lanes" like IA mentioned as well (typically called "turn lanes" and the lights referred to as "arrows", as in "wake up, jerk, you've got a turn arrow!" <HONK>). I'd forgotten about one-ways -- we don't see a lot of those down here, but they are very common in the US. Always good fodder for action movies with car chases.

[Klaynos]

A large part of london was flattened during WWII, and after the great fire the "new" city had considerably wider streets than before... so it's not too bad... We also have filler lanes, you should read our highway code tis great! But most of the country is at least a bit hilly and the pop density is MUCH higher than the USA... does anyone know about canada?

[YT2095]

Canada is Patchy, a bit like the US, again tho, lower pop density for the most part.

 

(I grew up there and went back for a while in 2000).

[CDarwin]

Sounds like they considered the possibility (i.e. they realize it's "relatively" safe), but consider it still too dangerous. I wonder if part of the reason for that may lie in the nature of intersections and visibility. I know that when I came down here to Florida I was just amazed at the vast distances and clear sightlines that were available compared with typical driving in hilly, curvy Atlanta (where such turns were not allowed). And of course London in particular is a very old city, and I imagine that intersections might be very tight and crowded. Just guessing, though.

 

You can turn right on red in East Tennessee, and we're in a mountain chain, so...

 

I would be interested to see how many wrecks actually occur as a result of people turning right on a red light.

[bascule]

You can't turn at a red light? How silly... I find it to be an incredible convenience when driving. If you can pick routes which mostly involve right turns, it can save you a lot of time at lights.

 

That said, I prefer riding my bike and crossing the street at my discretion, even when the light is red. Not technically legal but everyone around here does it...

[Klaynos]

I have to say I find the idea slightly scary and rather dangerous interesting cultural difference

[Phi for All]

You can't turn at a red light? How silly... I find it to be an incredible convenience when driving. If you can pick routes which mostly involve right turns, it can save you a lot of time at lights.

When gas got to a certain price, UPS drivers were told to plan their whole route using nothing but right turns, to save wasting gas idling at traffic lights.

 

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/12/22/ups-expects-to-save-600-million-by-favoring-right-hand-turns/

[bascule]

I have to say I find the idea slightly scary and rather dangerous interesting cultural difference

 

I can see how it might be dangerous for people who aren't used to it or aren't inspecting it, but having done it for years I think it's perfectly safe so long as there aren't any cars coming.

 

Many traffic lights here even feature green arrows indicating you can perform a right hand turn safely without even checking for traffic because the cars on the other street have a left turn arrow, so there's no chance of an altercation with another car.

 

There are intersections where visibility is bad or there are other problems precluding the right turn rule, and these are often labeled with "No Turn On Red" signs.

[Klaynos]

We do have green filler lights that do that kind of thing but they mean that other traffic will be red for turning that way, except traffic directly ahead so at a cross roads you can have green right and left for traffic facing each other but then the other traffic would be red.

[Pangloss]

I actually got a ticket once for turning right on a red at an intersection that was marked "no turn on red". I complained that the sign was too far back to remember in dense traffic and everyone in front of me had done the same thing, but it didn't do any good.

 

That UPS thing might actually still work in the UK, since you often have to pause while making a left (right) turn across traffic even at a green light, and many intersections just have stop signs instead of lights.

 

(Not that I see a lot of stop signs anymore. Seems like they put stoplights at even light-traffic intersections these days.)

[ecoli]

 

As an interested aside, we CAN make a left on red (unless otherwise posted) in the States, so long as you are turning FROM a one-way street ONTO another one-way street.

Not in New York city (and probably others)

[JohnB]

Down here red means stop.

 

If you don't, either some very serious looking gentlemen with portable disco lights will have a quiet word with you or a pretty picture of the event will arrive in the mail along with a request from the .gov for some financial assistance.

 

At intersections controlled by lights, on a green light you can turn left, (giving way to pedestrians), go straight through or turn right. If there is an arrow for the right turn, you proceed (as oncoming traffic has a red) or you give way to oncoming traffic.

 

Many intersections have a left turn lane that bypasses the intersection with the sign "Turn left anytime with care."

 

The exception to this is Victoria, specifically Melbourne where if you are turning right at an intersection you go to the left hand lane, wait for all following and oncoming traffic to pass and then turn right. (Usually just as the light changes.) This has provided decades of both wonder and amusement for the rest of Australia.

 

The various states have generally similar laws but put more emphasis on different things. South Australia is really big on "Keep left unless overtaking" with some pretty heavy fines to match. Queensland (my home state) OTH has a heavier fine for "Not wearing a seatbelt" than for "Car Surfing". Go figure.

 

I would add that coming to a full stop is required here for both "Stop" and "Give Way" signs. Failure to do so may result in those gentlemen with a 70s fetish to show you a nice movie they "just made" that you can watch while they fill out their request for financial assistance.

[Pangloss]

I'm starting to get the impression that other countries have stricter traffic laws than we do.

 

That doesn't really fit with my personal travelling experience from my youth, though. Crazy drivers doing whatever they wanted seemed to be the rule, especially in Paris and Rome.

[YT2095]

Crazy drivers doing whatever they wanted seemed to be the rule, especially in Paris and Rome.

 

Nothing`s changed on that score, they`re all still as suicidal there.

[Skye]

One difference is that Oz and Britain have roundabouts, which make low traffic intersections alot quicker. And exciting.

[Klaynos]

Same here for stop signs, but give ways you can keep moving if it's clear...

[Reaper]

That doesn't really fit with my personal travelling experience from my youth, though. Crazy drivers doing whatever they wanted seemed to be the rule, especially in Paris and Rome.

 

I should also note that during my visit to those cities, I learned that it is the pedestrian that has to watch out; because none of the cars or mopeds will stop for you. In fact, there is no real penalty for hitting one from what I heard....