iglak Posted January 4, 2004 Posted January 4, 2004 jpat1023 said in post #149 :if we could that would mean that our lives have a predetermined path and we have no actual choices to make. but who knows maybe choice is an illusion. that's my philosophy on life, but it's a lot more complicated and is just an advanced application of chaos theory. (complicated and just should never be in the same sentance, but it makes sense anyway. it's just simply complicated, complicated in a simple way. this is a different story...) we cant travel to the past...it has already happend...i dont care how fast you travel or whatever, it still takes time to do so and that time is never going in reverse. [/b]get rid of "we can't travel to the past..." and you'll be even closer to making a decision. if we could travel to the past, it has already happened, so we wouldn't be changing the present. we wouldn't even be changing the past. all we would be doing is going back to a point in the past and doing what the history books say (no, the history books will not change to include you, they will have already mentioned you before you left, and would have ever since the person wrote the book. again, no, they did not change) and for those who can't understand still (probably a lot of you, since this seems hard for people to understand...). thing of time as a straight piece of string. you go back in time to pull the piece of string so that it has a crook in it. there is already a record of this string having a crook in it. you did not change the record. all you did was carry out the record. if you had not gone back in time, there was not record of that crook because no one went back to crook it. if your illusion of "free will" decides to do it later, even though at the current time you don't think you will ever go back and crook it, there will still be a record of it's crook, because in the future you went to the past to change it. so i guess my illusionary free will story is very much connected... oh well, here it goes, as simple as possible... chaos theory: a little change over time building up to a big change. my theory: infinite changes interconnecting and intereffecting eachother causing all other changes, including the first ones. that explains life (and has occom's razor backing it up to boot!) P.S. i just reread my post, it's probably pretty hard to follow... just keep rereading it and you might be able to fill in the blanks with other parts of the post that don't make sense at fist... maybe... or you just need to do mor philisophical thinking before my poor explaining skills can reach you.
jpat1023 Posted January 4, 2004 Posted January 4, 2004 hmm...I don't think i have ever had an easier time proving someone wrong. iglak, you said if i went back in time and changed something that history books wouldnt change because they would have already included what ever i did. ok, here's where we use our brains. lets say right now i am reading a history book on Pres. Lincoln and i read about the part where he gets shot. I decide i dont like this and i have a time machine in my closet, so i go back in time and stop Lincoln from getting killed. Your telling me that the history book doesnt change, and i just got done reading it so i know it didnt include me before. So either the history book would be completely wrong about Lincoln's death or the history book would change. which is it?
Sayonara Posted January 4, 2004 Posted January 4, 2004 In all current (credible) models of what we'd call "time travel", both.
mam"MATT"us Posted January 4, 2004 Posted January 4, 2004 Time travel in the future is easy just travel fast. Into the past is not. Maybe with a worm-hole but I don't think you could go back to before the worm-hole was created. Besides it is debateable if worm-holes are practicle even possible.
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted January 4, 2004 Posted January 4, 2004 jpat1023 said in post #152 :if i went back in time and changed something that history books wouldnt change because they would have already included what ever i did. ok, here's where we use our brains. lets say right now i am reading a history book on Pres. Lincoln and i read about the part where he gets shot. I decide i dont like this and i have a time machine in my closet, so i go back in time and stop Lincoln from getting killed. Your telling me that the history book doesnt change, and i just got done reading it so i know it didnt include me before. So either the history book would be completely wrong about Lincoln's death or the history book would change. which is it? If the history book was written AFTER the assasination attempt, it would change, because the publichers would know he wasn't assasinated and change it. That would be strange...
elfin vampire Posted January 5, 2004 Posted January 5, 2004 There's no need to worry about time anomolies created by dimensional parallax when galavanting to distant human history, the Q-continuum will fix it all up. Just pack yourself a pipe and get out your smoking jacket and slippers...and enjoy the ride. What were we travelling in? Oh yes: the philosophy machine. Don't forget: it's very, very naughty to change the past.
Sayonara Posted January 5, 2004 Posted January 5, 2004 I really don't see why people get so afraid of possible changes to the timeline. I mean let's face it, Earth can hardly get much worse, can it?
iglak Posted January 5, 2004 Posted January 5, 2004 jpat1023 said in post #152 :So either the history book would be completely wrong about Lincoln's death or the history book would change. which is it? well... it could be completely wrong but what i am saying is that it never changed you might have gone back in time and meant to change it or tried to change it, but you did not succed. if you truly did change it, then you must have misread the history book, because lincon never died. back in the past, you came from the future to save him. also, i suppose if there is a paradox with even this, then we could always look at schroedinger's cat.
iglak Posted January 5, 2004 Posted January 5, 2004 Cap'n Refsmmat said in post #155 : If the history book was written AFTER the assasination attempt, it would change, because the publichers would know he wasn't assasinated and change it. That would be strange... no, it would not change, because it was written AFTER the assasination attempt, just like you said. it was writter AFTER the time at which jpat1023 attempted to stop it.
Sayonara Posted January 6, 2004 Posted January 6, 2004 ^ Stop being linear. iglak said in post #158 : also, i suppose if there is a paradox with even this, then we could always look at schroedinger's cat. That really wouldn't help.
-Demosthenes- Posted January 20, 2004 Posted January 20, 2004 I’m only 15 years old and probably not as educated as some of you, but I have some ideas. First of all, I think Time travel is possible. How: Electrons have a tendency to move from one place to another using no time at all, how is this possible? I think wormholes, but tiny worm holes. If we can jam a worm-hole open, say, a meter wide then we could travel through our selves. Here’s the time travel: Let’s say there are two sides of a worm-hole that you have lodged open, so you send the side A of the worm-hole at light speed around the planet a couple times, and bring it back, but keep side B with you to travel through. Then the side A of worm-hole’s time would have gone slower because of the light speed travel, thus it would exist in the past. Now when you travel through side B of the worm hole and end up at side A you will be in the past! Thus time travel occurs! Problems: First there’s the problem that you can’t go further than the instant after the time-travel system. That would explain why we don’t have time travelers coming back to our present. Then there is the problem of going back and stopping yourself from going back in the first place! So you create a time loop in which you go back, and then stop yourself from going back, and then you never went back so you can go back in the first place, and so on and so on. Very similar to the example of the man going back, causing his Grandfather’s Death, therefore he never existed so he never went back, thus he never caused his grandfather’s death so he does exist, and then he goes back and causes himself not to exist again be causing his grandfathers death, again. An endless time loop, that is inescapable. Solutions: There are possible solutions: first there could be self consistently laws, that make sure you can inadvertently cause a time loop, or possible prevent you from changing anything at all. Then there’s the second: That there is a natural mechanism that doesn’t allow time travel to exist. Possible causes an explosion an instant before that worm-hole is in the past, destroy the matter that is used to lodge it open, or possible the worm-hole itself. Or maybe no one can live through the time travel process to protect from time loop. There are many thing that could happen, possible it’s just not possible to travel back in time, but I think so. If you have any comments, please post, or send a PM to me! I’d like to know how plausible this all is. Thank you, EinsteinTheory
greg1917 Posted January 20, 2004 Posted January 20, 2004 "Electrons have a tendency to move from one place to another using no time at all" Not the electrons I know. they're just normal, law abiding electrons who dont want no trouble. To accuse them of time travel is somewhat improper and I have to ask you take that back, save offending the poor dears.
-Demosthenes- Posted January 20, 2004 Posted January 20, 2004 There's something like quarks or protons that can move form one place to another. I know what they all are, but not sure which one moves without using time. Electron apear standing still when observed, but move by the time you look at them again. Which sujests intant travel. Something like that?
-Demosthenes- Posted January 20, 2004 Posted January 20, 2004 Maybe you could explain it to me and it's relation to time travel?
fafalone Posted January 20, 2004 Posted January 20, 2004 Entanglement is where the states of two particles are linked instantaneously over very large distances, so that the propagation of change is greater than c.
JaKiri Posted January 20, 2004 Posted January 20, 2004 EinsteinTheory said in post # :There's something like quarks or protons that can move form one place to another. I know what they all are, but not sure which one moves without using time. Electron apear standing still when observed, but move by the time you look at them again. Which sujests intant travel. Something like that? I originally thought that you were being confused by the Heisenberg uncertainty principle (you can only measure position or velocity precisely [sort of]), but after a reread of your post I don't know what you're talking about at all, I'm afraid.
-Demosthenes- Posted January 20, 2004 Posted January 20, 2004 Electrons seem to move faster than light. But thats impossible, so a solution could be worm-holes. Make sense?
-Demosthenes- Posted January 23, 2004 Posted January 23, 2004 Let's assume that Time travel is poosible. How do you think we could time trave? My theory was posted in the "Is Time Travel Posseible" thread, right here:My Time Travel Theory Thanks.
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted January 23, 2004 Posted January 23, 2004 Um, we can't go the speed of light. Time would be stopped. That is not possible.
-Demosthenes- Posted January 23, 2004 Posted January 23, 2004 Okay, can you think of another way to travel back in time?
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted January 23, 2004 Posted January 23, 2004 You can't. In case you haven't noticed, we don't have tourists from the future around here.
-Demosthenes- Posted January 23, 2004 Posted January 23, 2004 How: Electrons have a tendency to move from one place to another using no time at all, how is this possible? I think wormholes, but tiny worm holes. If we can jam a worm-hole open, say, a meter wide then we could travel through our selves. Here’s the time travel: Let’s say there are two sides of a worm-hole that you have lodged open, so you send the side A of the worm-hole at light speed around the planet a couple times, and bring it back, but keep side B with you to travel through. Then the side A of worm-hole’s time would have gone slower because of the light speed travel, thus it would exist in the past. Now when you travel through side B of the worm hole and end up at side A you will be in the past! Thus time travel occurs! Problems: First there’s the problem that you can’t go further than the instant after the time-travel system. That would explain why we don’t have time travelers coming back to our present. Then there is the problem of going back and stopping yourself from going back in the first place! So you create a time loop in which you go back, and then stop yourself from going back, and then you never went back so you can go back in the first place, and so on and so on. Very similar to the example of the man going back, causing his Grandfather’s Death, therefore he never existed so he never went back, thus he never caused his grandfather’s death so he does exist, and then he goes back and causes himself not to exist again be causing his grandfathers death, again. An endless time loop, that is inescapable. Solutions: There are possible solutions: first there could be self consistently laws, that make sure you can inadvertently cause a time loop, or possible prevent you from changing anything at all. Then there’s the second: That there is a natural mechanism that doesn’t allow time travel to exist. Possible causes an explosion an instant before that worm-hole is in the past, destroy the matter that is used to lodge it open, or possible the worm-hole itself. Or maybe no one can live through the time travel process to protect from time loop. There are many thing that could happen, possible it’s just not possible to travel back in time, but I think so. Does that answer your question?
iglak Posted January 23, 2004 Posted January 23, 2004 Cap'n Refsmmat said in post # :You can't. In case you haven't noticed, we don't have tourists from the future around here. that argument means absolutely nothing.
Radical Edward Posted January 23, 2004 Posted January 23, 2004 electrons only travel faster than light in certain media, like in water (Cherenkov radiation). Normal stuff does not travel faster than light.
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