Signal Velocities

[Klaynos]

Overconfidence can be a weakness. I hold that you are wrong, but i am still open to the possibility you could be right.

 

I rely on an academic formal education in physics, and peer reviewed journals.

[ydoaPs]

What's the word for holding on to beliefs despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary?

[Graviphoton]

I beleive the answer Dad, is ''antiquated.''

 

INow.

 

Yup.Flamer.

[Klaynos]

I beleive the answer Dad, is ''antiquated.''

 

INow.

 

Yup.Flamer.

 

Antiquated, really only applies if the ideas are old fashioned...

[Graviphoton]

Which they are, when holding onto the belief photons can't move faster than light, when we know they can.

[iNow]

Your own evidence showed that your conclusions were false. What exactly do you think we are all missing here?

[Klaynos]

Which they are, when holding onto the belief photons can't move faster than light, when we know they can.

 

Cite a peer reviewed paper in which it STATES that as being the case, as it'd be REALLY big news in the physics world if it where true and I'm sure I'd have heard about it...

 

If it's so clear that they can it should be easy to find a paper on it...

[Graviphoton]

And now, Dr Hakwings book, ''Black Holes and Baby Universes, among other essays,''

 

he states that

 

''and we can make photons travel faster than light, for a short period of time using the Uncertainty Principle.''

 

Proof.

[ydoaPs]

And now, Dr Hakwings book, ''Black Holes and Baby Universes, among other essays,''

 

he states that

 

''and we can make photons travel faster than light, for a short period of time using the Uncertainty Principle.''

 

Proof.

 

Graviphoton, the Bible says both that you should hate your parents and that hate and murder are the same thing. Does that mean you should kill your parents? Context is everything.

[iNow]

And now, Dr Hakwings book, ''Black Holes and Baby Universes, among other essays,''

 

he states that

 

''and we can make photons travel faster than light, for a short period of time using the Uncertainty Principle.''

 

Proof.

 

No. Appeal to authority.

 

 

What chapter, what page? What is cited in the back of the book so we can look at the actual study?

[Klaynos]

And now, Dr Hakwings book, ''Black Holes and Baby Universes, among other essays,''

 

he states that

 

''and we can make photons travel faster than light, for a short period of time using the Uncertainty Principle.''

 

Proof.

 

That would be a pop sci book... not what I asked for.

[Reaper]

And now, Dr Hakwings book, ''Black Holes and Baby Universes, among other essays,''

 

he states that

 

''and we can make photons travel faster than light, for a short period of time using the Uncertainty Principle.''

 

Proof.

 

No, that's not what he says.

 

What Hawking writes in that book is that virtual particle pairs have a small but finite probability that they will be able to travel faster than light, in which they will escape a black hole. There is nothing in there that says that you can make photons, or anything else, travel faster than light.

 

And nowhere in the book does he actually say that anything is proof.

 

 

EDIT: Alright, I found the appropriate page that discusses this:

How can radiation escape from the gravitational field of a black hole? There are a number of ways one can understand how. Although they seem different, they are all really equivalent. One way is to realize that the uncertainty principle allows particles (not photons) travel faster than light for a short distance . This enables particles and radiation to get out through the event horizon and escape from a black hole. What comes out of a black hole, however, will be different from what fell in. Only the energy will be the same.

 

So, as we see here, what Steven Hawking is talking about is the implications of the Hawking Radiation that he came up with so many years ago, which dictates that black holes aren't totally "black". What you did, Graviphoton, was not only make up a quote he didn't write, but also took this out of context. It does not support your position at all. Furthermore, when he says "short distance", usually that means < 10^-15 m in the context of quantum mechanics (probably a huge overestimate, but I'm just putting a figure so that you can hopefully wrap your mind around the scale that this takes place at)

 

Try again later, when you are not banned anymore in 7 days.

Edited June 11, 2008 by Reaper
multiple post merged