Carnivore to Herbivore

[Barry II]

Is there any information/discussion, etc. out there on any aspect of turning carnivores into herbivores? Do plants exist in the environment of most carnivores that have the nutrients a carnivore needs and is it just a matter of a carnivore metabolizing them differently and gaining the instinct to eat veggies? Learning to climb trees and growing different teeth might be necessary depending on the animal and there may an appendix issue but I bet there's at least one species of carnivore that would need nothing but a change in instinct to become a successful vegetarian. Any ideas on what the best choice of species would be for such an experiment?

 

Benefits might be an easier death for animals that no longer would be prey, more safety for humans, and a more stable/easier-to-fix food supply for the former carnivores.

[Country Boy]

You put this in the "evolution" area but you don't appear to be talking about evolution but about "training" carnivores to be herbivores.

 

If you are talking about evolution, I believe most of the evidence is that it went the other way- herbivores evolved into carnivores.

[Barry II]

I almost put this in Genetics because I assume we'd need to genetically modify a carnivore at the germ level to change it to a herbivore. Before that I looked for a theoretical biology forum and couldn't find one.

[CDarwin]

Uhm, there might also be some pretty obvious teeth issues, as well as muscular issues, skeletal structure issues, metabolism issues, issues of vitamin and nutrient synthesis, protein issues... I'm also not totally convinced of the point.

[Mr Skeptic]

Eh. Buy cheap dog food and look at the ingredients.

[CDarwin]

Eh. Buy cheap dog food and look at the ingredients.

 

There's a difference between dog food and a leaf, though.

[Mr Skeptic]

There's also a difference between veggies and leaves. We can eat veggies, but not digest cellulose. Some plant matter is not too different from meat. Proteins and sugars should still be digestible. Dunno about starch, but I'd be surprised if they couldn't eat it.

[Barry II]

There's vegetarian dog food. And this says:

High-protein plants such as Desmodium rensonii, Gliricidia sepium ("Madre de Cacao"), Indigofera tyesmani (indigofera) and Leucaena leucocephala ("ipil-ipil") are planted in a forage garden and cut at selected intervals as feed for animals.

 

If I were one of the animals that has like a 90% chance of being attacked and killed by a preditor, I'd think life wasn't worth it and kill myself painlessly if I could. Unfortunately, animals can't so I predict that one day humans will do something about it. Killing the preditors wouldn't be a popular choice these days, so I thought of the carnivore to herbivore idea.

 

Hopefully there's a conservation benefit and a safety-for-humans benefit because I don't think people care as much about preventing countless cases of horrible suffering than those issues.

[blazarwolf]

You could do it with eugenics on most species... though there life would be less comfortable (shorter,painfull) for many many (alot for the anatomy) generations.... Before humanity comes around to this, will be able to grow meatbags from the cieling and the jains will rejoice.

[Paralith]

Well, you can always look at animals that seem to be on the border of such a transition - bears, for example, came from carnivorous ancestors and still partake in frequent carnivory; but they are omnivorous, and will eat a large variety of plant foods as well. Another example is the palm civet, another omnivore from a carnivorous ancestor. Probably the best example, though, is the kinkajou, also from a carnivorous ancestor, but depends primarily on fruit for its diet. It does still eat some insects and an occasional bird, but fruit is the main component.

[john5746]

There's vegetarian dog food. And this says:

 

 

If I were one of the animals that has like a 90% chance of being attacked and killed by a preditor, I'd think life wasn't worth it and kill myself painlessly if I could. Unfortunately, animals can't so I predict that one day humans will do something about it. Killing the preditors wouldn't be a popular choice these days, so I thought of the carnivore to herbivore idea.

 

Hopefully there's a conservation benefit and a safety-for-humans benefit because I don't think people care as much about preventing countless cases of horrible suffering than those issues.

 

If you kill off all the predators, then the prey needs to be controlled, or they will just multiply until starvation.

 

As for safety-for-humans, well if they continue to eat meat, I think the higher the animal goes up in the food chain, the more likely poisons, etc can enter the animal, since it is eating the animals below it. But, I assume you would not want humans to be predators, so I see only more trouble for us.

[blazarwolf]

If you kill off all the predators, then the prey needs to be controlled, or they will just multiply until starvation.

 

Well kinda... You would see alot of wierd behaviors, there hood ordements would get really neat, and maybe way down the line you get to see a species of grazers take its first bite of animal flesh (maybe not so far down the line)... Either way listening to Peter Cayote would be more exciting.

[Moontanman]

There are very few animals that are pure carnivores on the Earth. Most carnivores will eat some plant material, fruits are taken by many carnivores and some will even take some leaves and other material. Snakes are about the only pure carnivores I can think of off the top of my head but I am sure there are others. To some extent it's not that carnivores will not eat plant material, most of them simply cannot digest it efficiently. Humans are omnivores much like bears, canids will eat almost anything if they have too and will choose to eat fruits, nuts, and even roots. Even herbivores will take some animal material from time to time. Cows eat a significant number of insects but that is mostly by accident and it's unknown if they contribute anything the cow really needs. What carnivore are you thinking of teaching to eat plants?